Good day all, in response to the increase in transphobia we’ve experience since the For Women Scotland v Scotland Supreme Court decision, seemingly a mix of genuine malice and people tripping up with a topic they’re unfamiliar with, I’ve taken the initiative to write some guidelines on how to engage in the topic and clearing up some common misconceptions.
https://guide.feddit.uk/politics/transphobia.html
I’m not all that happy with them, I want something more comprehensive but my time has been pretty taxed lately and I don’t want my perfectionism to stand in the way of having these out. If there’s any issues, glaring omissions or whatnot, then please let me know or make a pull request here.
Are detrans discussions prohibited?
I asked before but didn’t get a response.
I don’t even know what ‘detrans discussions’ means. As long as you don’t just use the fact some people transition as a cudgel against the idea of medical transition, then I don’t see why not.
I don’t even know what ‘detrans discussions’ means
I mean discussions similar to those in Reddit’s /r/detrans, /r/actual_detrans, /r/ask_detransition, etc. or in fact any discussions around detransitioning. In my experience, such communities and discussions very much do not toe the trans party line.
/r/detrans
I checked it out and it seems like an absolute cesspool, so no ‘discussions’ like the what happens there aren’t allowed.
In my experience, such communities and discussions very much do not toe the trans party line.
Here is a quote from the top post in that community today:
How long will we pretend they aren’t violent braindead porn-addicted narcissists who hate us because our existence challenges their narrative and provides a living experience for those ones who aren’t completely sure about transmuting themselves into fake males/females so that they can address what’s wrong with them and why they do feel so much distress about their bodies and biological sex?
Is it really any wonder why people not drowning in this trans-hating sludge would find this objectionable?
Here is a quote from the top post in that community today:
That’s not the kind of discussion I was referring to although there are indeed a lot of angry detransitioners there. I meant more serious discussion like the following. And it’s worth bearing in mind that /r/detrans only allows participation by people who either are currently trans or who were trans and have detransitioned:
It’s crazy how much of trans culture is “letting the intrusive thoughts win”. There’s this whole mindset of “you are your urges and if you don’t act on them you’re denying your true self, which will have dire consequences”.
Sentiments I’ve seen expressed in online trans spaces include:
- “Cis” people don’t question their gender. If you ever question your gender you are not “cis”.
- If you are not “cis” you need to do some kind of transition otherwise your life is a lie and you will be miserable forever and probably commit suicide.
- Your endogenous sex hormones are poisoning/ruining your body and you need to start HRT ASAP to prevent further damage.
- You need to start transitioning ASAP, every moment you spend not having started transition is wasted and a lie. If you wait too long it will be too late, you will never be able to live as your true self, and you will be miserable forever and probably commit suicide.
- Any mental health issues/life problems you’re experiencing were actually gender dysphoria all along.
- If you search the memories of your past, you’ll find evidence that you were always meant to transition.
- If you’re unsure about your “gender identity” you should try transition anyway so you can be sure. Try out names, pronouns and outfits. Try HRT.
- If you are dysphoric and HRT lessens it, transition was the right choice. If HRT makes your dysphoria worse, or you start experiencing dysphoria on HRT when you didn’t before, this also means that transition was the right choice, because HRT helped you to stop repressing your feelings.
- If you are questioning your gender but have neutral/positive feelings about some sexed part of your body, you are in denial. Once you fully accept your identity you’ll realise that you hate that body part too and were repressing your true feelings.
- If you want to transition, you should. If you don’t want to transition or are worried/scared that you’ll have to transition, this also means that you should, because you’re repressing/in denial.
- Any doubts you have about transition are denial and internalised transphobia.
These people are straight up encouraging obsession and paranoia. Once you’re introduced to the culture and start “questioning” (and all kinds of things count as “questioning”), every path you’re presented with ends with “you need to transition ASAP otherwise things will get massively worse and it might kill you”. The brainrot is difficult to eradicate, and potentially life-ruining for anyone with OCD, intrusive thoughts, hyperfixations, or similar issues.
Anyone who expresses dissatisfaction with the state of the community gets chastised and/or kicked out. This happened to me once. A few years ago I was in a Discord with some friends, many of whom started identifying as trans/non-binary. One day I said something they interpreted as “transphobic” and was promptly dogpiled and banned from the server (one person sent me a high and mighty message about how I should “rescind my statement” if I wanted to be unbanned). People from the server contacted my best friend and urged him to stop associating with me (he was a reasonable guy so he didn’t).
– https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/comments/1kdqur4/trans_culture_cognitohazards/
Is this kind of discussion prohibited?
That’s more than just an ‘angry detransitioners’, it’s pretty textbook transphobia. It’s a problem with the entire subreddit, it’s not a place for detransistors to talk and support each other (I imaging detransitioning is emotionally quite gruelling), but a place for people opposed to the very idea of transition to express some pretty horrific views on it. The vast majority of the top posts in that community are talking about is the idea that transition, and the wider trans community, is an insidious plot to prey on the vulnerable and it taints everything that comes out of there, even the post you linked to.
This post also has nothing to do with detransition, so it’s quite suspect that you asked about ‘detransition discussions’ only to bait-and-switch to criticism of online trans communities. Yes, there are problems with online trans communities that can be pointed out, this isn’t inherently transphobic; plenty of trans people criticise egg culture, for example. But the way that community does it is transphobic, saying the trans community is an insidious cult that preys on the vulnerable with lies is textbook transphobia.
I’m going to stop engaging now as this got quite tedious a while ago. I’ll address situations as they arise, and add any needed clarification to the guidelines.
the title makes it sound like this is a post on how to be transphobic. it’s very funny pls don’t change it.
Should we all be transphobic now father?
Step One: write a harry potter book
Step two: Open an X account
Step 3: Buy a massive mouldy castle in scotland
Step zero point five: absolutely butcher Latin
I think you mean “carnifico Latinum!”
Thank you! I appreciate the work you’ve put in to this!
Glad to see blahaj is refederated with .uk now.
I appreciate the care you’ve put into this. By choosing a neutral tone, you have created a framework that allows for opposing viewpoints to exist in discussions of the topic so long as the participants stay within established guidelines. I believe that this approach is an even-handed way to limit fanaticism and promote acceptance.
Perfection, though sometimes alluring, is an exhausting pursuit. What you’ve accomplished is realistic, immediately applicable, and amendable. In my opinion, that is infinitely more useful than the ever-fleeting notion of attainable perfection.
Well done, in both the creation of the document and in your personal effort to not allow perfectionism to stand in the way of something good.
Great initiative. Looks pretty well written from my point of view.
What’s going to happen to repeated guideline breakers ?
Depends on which guideline they break. The 41% one will probably be an insta-ban. Others will likely be an initial warning followed by temp bans escalating to a permaban.
I’m trans and I learned a lot myself from this. I might have brought up the 41% thing and not knowing its use, miscommunicated what I meant in support of trans rights. Glad to have read this, being trans doesn’t automatically make you aware of every aspect of the conversations.
I imagine it would still depend on context. The guidelines don’t say that the 41% figure is inaccurate (and from some extremely light googling of the cited organisation, ASFSP doesn’t appear to be an anti trans pressure group so i’m inclined to take that figure on its face value). thus talking about that figure in the context of a wider discussion on trans issues, which absolutely includes a sky high suicide rate, is probably fine.
But as the guidelines say; using that figure to encourage someone to commit suicide is almost certainly a contravention. As is using it to justify ignoring a trans person or trans persons basic right to self determination
That said i’m not a mod, i’m not in their heads, so i could be wrong
Just want to point out that suicide rates/attempts are more a reflection of the way transgender people are treated than a some kind of pervasive mental illness. High-functioning autistic people also have very high rates of suicidal ideation and attempts, because–much like transgender people–they (we) tend to be socially isolated and ostracized. Transgender people that are in accepting communities and who have non-shitty parents tend to have much, much lower rates of suicidal ideation and attempts.
Good 😊
That’s a really concise, clear and well written guide. Worth reading for general life, not just for feddit.
Thanks for taking the time to put that together :)
This is generally very clear and well written, but I would clarify that while using ‘biological man/woman’ may be a misinformed/malicious may to refer to cis people, using ‘biological male/female/intersex’ to refer to one’s own biological sex is in fact a relatively common term that many trans people (such as myself) prefer to AGAB
Good point, that’s definitely something I see fairly often. I don’t like it myself (also trans), but should be on here.
Especially as all A*AB terms easily mistaken for “All * are Bastards” ala ACAB.
I do it the other way around, Assigned Cop At Birth
It’s always sad to see a baby born with a mustache, mirrored sunglasses, and a racial slur on its lips
I blame the parents for eating all those donuts
Come on. No one needs that image placed on the mind.
Really great to see this. You’ve clearly put in some serious thought and reflection to come up with something that draws a sensible line in the sand.
Thank you for addressing this!
Love to see this - far too many people perpetuating transphobia :(
Not sure trans phobia and perpetrated are correct terms. The purpetrrate tends to indicate a choice. Where phobia dose not tend to.
A phobia is an irrational fear but normally not one that can be controlled.
Transfasism may be a better term.
I said perpetuating not perpetrating and transphobia is the correct word
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/transphobic
coming from or having a fear or dislike of transgender or non-binary people (= people whose gender does not match the body they were born with)
related to policies, behaviours, rules, etc. that result in a continued unfair advantage to cisgender people (= people whose gender matches the body they were born with) and unfair or harmful treatment of transgender or non-binary people (= people whose gender does not match the body they were born with)
Anti-trans fascism is a different word choice you could use, sure
Thank you for this!
I was going to facetiously say
- Step 1: don’t be a bigot
- Step 2: there is no step 2
But those guidelines are a pretty good description of how to follow step 1 on this issue, so let’s adjust it to
- Step 1: don’t be a bigot
- Step 2: if in doubt, read those guidelines
- Step 3: see step 1
It’s crazy we even need guidelines to not be an asshole lol
That is awesome! I can’t even find anything to complain about, and I’m a whiner.
No bullshit, doing that is an act of goodness, and I’d hug your neck if we ever met.
Well written and well judged. You and others in the feddit.uk admin team continue to be an exemplar.
Very well written, clear and concise! Thanks for putting the time and effort into creating this.
