During the Obamacare debate the Papa John’s CEO was upset that he would have to raise pizza prices a few cents to pay for the health insurance his workers need. Wealthy people are psychopaths.
But then what is the difference? Literally just “not doing math?”
If burger $9.99 + 20% tip = $11.98, and you’re fine with paying that $11.98, why does it make a difference if the menu says “$11.98” or you do the math yourself? Are you also mad tax (in most states) isn’t included on the sticker price of retail goods, or are you fine doing your own math when it comes to tipping the government?
And does that apply to taxes, which also aren’t included in the menu price? Why am I supposed to take the brunt of this issue as a poor worker and not my boss or government? Fuck me for not wanting to be homeless? Why doesn’t ONE comment in this thread besides mine mention taxes though they follow the exact same logic?
Is it because you want to pinch pennies, and you can choose to not tip but have to pay tax, and deep down you know you’re only fucking over the employee but have to sanitize your conscience so you can save 20% on your bill?
And does that apply to taxes, which also aren’t included in the menu price?
in civilized societies all taxes and everything are included in the price you will be required to pay. civilized societies don’t rely on hidden costs to wear down their people. though on this latter part, the plague is already spreading from the US…
Is it because you want to pinch pennies, and you can choose to not tip but have to pay tax, and deep down you know you’re only fucking over the employee but have to sanitize your conscience so you can save 20% on your bill?
you have to understand this. It’s not the pesky filthy consumer that scews you. It’s your employer. but sure, it’s easier and even pleasurable to hate the small person, than your owner.
in civilized societies all taxes and everything are included in the price you will be required to pay. civilized societies don’t rely on hidden costs to wear down their people. though on this latter part, the plague is already spreading from the US…
Ok. Then stay there. You wouldn’t want to come into such an uncivilized place with all of us savages anyway. Problem solved for you.
you have to understand this. It’s not the pesky filthy consumer that scews you. It’s your employer. but sure, it’s easier and even pleasurable to hate the small person, than your owner.
You have to understand this, it is both of you. Without you paying him he wouldn’t be able to keep the business running and exploiting the revolving door of people close to homelessness that are willing to work to avoid living in the street. You are an essential cog in the exploitation machine. Don’t worry, they all hate the owner too, just also you for literally understanding how it works but still coming in here and making me serve you for free just because you disagree with my boss. You give him a $20 and give me the finger, why wouldn’t I hate both of you?
Ok. Then stay there. You wouldn’t want to come into such an uncivilized place with all of us savages anyway. Problem solved for you.
now that is correct.
Without you paying him he wouldn’t be able to keep the business running
oh they must he running on such a thin profit margin even the boss is starving. I’m so sad for him. he is just not able to pay a better wage.
but still coming in here and making me serve you for free
you shouldn’t be serving anyone for free. your employer should be paying you for your work. but you are being exploited by your owners. they are very happy they can cheap out on you.
why wouldn’t I hate both of you?
because it’s not the customer’s job to pay for your work. that’s the job of your boss. no other industry accepts anything else than that. and then also consider that there are places that manage to be even worse where the boss requires all tips to be handed over.
your owners have done a great job into brainwashing you to divide your own kind with hate. they can be proud of you. don’t expect any bonus though.
oh they must he running on such a thin profit margin even the boss is starving. I’m so sad for him. he is just not able to pay a better wage.
Arrrre you dumb? How do you expect the restaurant owner to pay rent if he has no customers to pay him? It’s simple really, people no shop there, store no have money, store close. Boss won’t be homeless but the restaurant will close and if that happens to all tip reliant restaurants then there’s no more foodservice industry to exploit the workers on your dime.
How do you expect that not tipping the poor worker who is struggling to get by helps them actually and hurts their boss?```
you shouldn’t be serving anyone for free. your employer should be paying you for your work. but you are being exploited by your owners. they are very happy they can cheap out on you.
Don’t worry I can hate both my boss and the smug entitled dickhead who knows how it works and still steps on the worker because he can’t be bothered to heat up his own nuggies. You’re really trying to justify how hurting the worker makes you a better person, and you’re mad that the worker doesn’t see solidarity in that? You know you’re in the wrong deep down but have to lie to yourself, pathetic. How’s that for worker solidarity, “fuck you, I’ll pay your boss money,” thanks.
because it’s not the customer’s job to pay for your work.
If you go to a place that relies on tips, yes it is. We can argue how it should be all day but you know goddamn well what is expected as evidenced by the fact we’re even having this conversation. Until it changes, YOU are part of the problem. Just go to a place that doesn’t rely on tips, this isn’t that difficult.
I’m not brainwashed, you’re selfish. Go. To. A. Place. That. Doesn’t. Rely. On. Tips. That’s it, why is that so hard for you to understand?
You’re failing the basic point. It’s a tip. It’s optional. You want security go for a job that guarantees it. Until servers become scarce businesses won’t change. Either way, not the customer’s problem.
Until customers stop supporting the exploitation it will continue, you need to go to a restaurant that doesn’t run off tips or learn to heat up your own nuggies.
I left the industry years ago, the places I worked at kept on chugging, the only thing that killed some was covid when the customers were all not going. You want to buy your cake from my exploiter, have it, and eat it too, all the while victim blaming me for needing to make rent. Real progressive there champ.
I hope it does and you have to learn how to cook for yourself lol.
But don’t worry, there’s an endless supply of poor people on the verge of homelessness for the businesses you support to hire and exploit, you’ll never run out of people to look down on “for their own good.”
I did leave the industry, the last restaurant I left is exploiting some other kid now, fuck them I guess. I actually still go there (I tip, I’m not an asshole to the workers, I don’t just pretend to care like the eurotrash in this thread), kid seems like a good egg, nonbinary, kicked out by their parents for being nonbinary, lived on friends’ couches for a while and finally was able to get their own place (well, two roommates, but ykwim). I’m not gonna explain to them why I’m not tipping them “for their own good actually” and they need to go find another job, I’m just going to do my part and not be an insufferable prick. You go right ahead.
I don’t even know where you get the idea that people who eat out can’t also cook at home. You’ve got a lot of anger issues clearly, that sucks, Hope it gets better for you. But don’t pin employment issues on those who fundamentally are disengaged from the transaction. Your earnings are between you and your employer. Anything else is gravy.
Tipping is fucking stupid but it is the current system for how US waiters earn a living. So to fuck them over and not tip does nothing to change the system and only leaves them overworked with no money.
Think materially and tip your servers. Believe me they would like it to change too. It isn’t them that keeps the system in place. Big business has the money to lobby against our human and material needs.
Former euro server here. Got a livable wage plus tips. Not the mandated kind, just the extras people would leave. That would net me 5 euros per hour above my livable wage.
Yeah definitely not arguing against earning a livable wage via being paid that livable wage by the employer. That should be the system. But sadly that isn’t the system and not paying a tip in the states isn’t going to do anything to change the system.
For example, the unhoused crisis is caused by the same ultra rich classes that keep tipping around. But I’m not going to pretend that the unhoused aren’t people with real immediate needs. I will give them money when I can. I will vote and push for change as well. Material concerns of the moment are more important to me than strict idealism.
Y’all living privileged idealogue navel-gazed lives can do what you want I guess. We here in the working class are tired, overworked, and are trying to survive the day.
You’re more frustrated at people that don’t leave tips over the fact you are seen as less than a person by the owners that pay a pitiful wage. Look to the people that came before you, look up Mario Savio.
The non-tippers are complicit, they patronize my job and give the owner their money, but don’t think I’m deserving of any either as evidenced by them not tipping. My boss doesn’t give a shit whether I’m tipped or not, and if I leave over it he’ll have my replacement within the hour and the system continues.
Sure, be an ideologue all you want and “tipping is wrong!” So don’t come into my store. That’s the only way to make my boss feel it instead of me, if you come in, give him $20 and give me the finger for wasting time on you, yes, of course I’m mad at both of you.
So if nobody went to your store because they don’t want to tip the restaurant would close and you’d be fired.
You are being exploited by your boss. The people tipping you are subsidizing that exploitation. You want to be pissed, go be pissed at your boss or find another job.
As another user mentioned plenty of wait staff are in favour of tipping so also because of that it doesn’t change
And it’s a descriminative and unfair system. Theres plenty of data on it.
The business keeps going, it finds another hungry, almost homeless person to exploit, and keeps making profit because people like you keep going. Put your money where your mouth is and do not patronize these places or you ARE part of the problem. The only way our system changes is if THE CUSTOMER rejects it, victim blaming the workers is frankly kinda lame.
Wait you take a moral stand against McDonald’s but are willing to stiff workers at restaurants and support owners that are taking advantage of them? This take makes no sense.
This is generally false. Most waiters would see more consistent income with fewer instances of subjective nonsense like ideologues who don’t believe they have to follow the basic cultural rules of the place in which they visit. There is an exceptional subset of waiters that would make less for sure but they are in a minority.
I put livable wage in quotation marks because it wouldn’t actually be a livable wage. The pay would likely be 1-2x minimum wage which is still not livable in most places
If we all participated in a “tip strike” and stopped leaving tips, the front of the house staff that relies on it would quit. Eventually the restaurant owners would have to do something about it.
Unfortunately, it seems like the owners would rather add a gratuity fee than rise prices on the menu and pay a decent wage.
One can hope though that eventually, tipping would go away. Sorry bar tenders and servers. Some of you may struggle but it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make meme
How about instead of a “tip strike” (aka “make the servers work for free until they get fed up because fuck them”) you do a “boycott” (“not fucking go at all so you don’t have to tip and you’re not forcing the worker to serve you for free”)?
You can’t sacrifice your night out for your ideals but you can inconvenience your server? Real magnanimous, thanks.
Nope. It’s not my obligation to pay their wages directly. They can accept no tip, they can lobby for a living wage from their employer, or they can find a different job. I am okay with all of the above.
The only way change happens is through action, not just crying about it. If you want change, stop tipping.
Yet still the only one hurt is the worker, the boss got theirs when you paid for your meal.
“The worker can leave if they don’t like serving me for free while worrying about homelessness” yeah, and you could cook at home or go to a restaurant that doesn’t use the tipping model (they exist), yet you chose to go somewhere that the worker relies on tips and enjoy in the exploitation with the owner, you are an essential part in keeping the business running the way it does. On top of that you exploit them further yourself by knowing full well how it works and who you’re really hurting and justifying it in your selfish mind so you can pinch pennies. Even if the worker does quit the owner just pulls the top application off the stack and gives them a call, there’s a revolving door of people willing to do whatever they have to to avoid becoming homeless. Most often that worker then just cycles to another restaurant an continues the cycle themselves as they can get another waitstaff job easier than anything else.
Not only are you literally changing nothing, you’re actively participating in the exploitation you claim to be against, you’re not the business owner, no, but without you his exploitation wouldn’t work.
It’s so fucking stupid
Just raise the prices by 20% and also pay the staff 20% more.
But fuck workers’ rights and living wages, right?
They wouldn’t need to raise prices that much.
During the Obamacare debate the Papa John’s CEO was upset that he would have to raise pizza prices a few cents to pay for the health insurance his workers need. Wealthy people are psychopaths.
For some reason I thought I remembered seeing an article about Papa John dying. Apparently I was mistaken.
Bummer…
But then what is the difference? Literally just “not doing math?”
If burger $9.99 + 20% tip = $11.98, and you’re fine with paying that $11.98, why does it make a difference if the menu says “$11.98” or you do the math yourself? Are you also mad tax (in most states) isn’t included on the sticker price of retail goods, or are you fine doing your own math when it comes to tipping the government?
the difference is false advertising. being able to know prices upfront and being able to make a fair decision on where to eat.
it is so weird this is not common sense.
And does that apply to taxes, which also aren’t included in the menu price? Why am I supposed to take the brunt of this issue as a poor worker and not my boss or government? Fuck me for not wanting to be homeless? Why doesn’t ONE comment in this thread besides mine mention taxes though they follow the exact same logic?
Is it because you want to pinch pennies, and you can choose to not tip but have to pay tax, and deep down you know you’re only fucking over the employee but have to sanitize your conscience so you can save 20% on your bill?
in civilized societies all taxes and everything are included in the price you will be required to pay. civilized societies don’t rely on hidden costs to wear down their people. though on this latter part, the plague is already spreading from the US…
you have to understand this. It’s not the pesky filthy consumer that scews you. It’s your employer. but sure, it’s easier and even pleasurable to hate the small person, than your owner.
Ok. Then stay there. You wouldn’t want to come into such an uncivilized place with all of us savages anyway. Problem solved for you.
You have to understand this, it is both of you. Without you paying him he wouldn’t be able to keep the business running and exploiting the revolving door of people close to homelessness that are willing to work to avoid living in the street. You are an essential cog in the exploitation machine. Don’t worry, they all hate the owner too, just also you for literally understanding how it works but still coming in here and making me serve you for free just because you disagree with my boss. You give him a $20 and give me the finger, why wouldn’t I hate both of you?
now that is correct.
oh they must he running on such a thin profit margin even the boss is starving. I’m so sad for him. he is just not able to pay a better wage.
you shouldn’t be serving anyone for free. your employer should be paying you for your work. but you are being exploited by your owners. they are very happy they can cheap out on you.
because it’s not the customer’s job to pay for your work. that’s the job of your boss. no other industry accepts anything else than that. and then also consider that there are places that manage to be even worse where the boss requires all tips to be handed over.
your owners have done a great job into brainwashing you to divide your own kind with hate. they can be proud of you. don’t expect any bonus though.
Arrrre you dumb? How do you expect the restaurant owner to pay rent if he has no customers to pay him? It’s simple really, people no shop there, store no have money, store close. Boss won’t be homeless but the restaurant will close and if that happens to all tip reliant restaurants then there’s no more foodservice industry to exploit the workers on your dime.
How do you expect that not tipping the poor worker who is struggling to get by helps them actually and hurts their boss?```
Don’t worry I can hate both my boss and the smug entitled dickhead who knows how it works and still steps on the worker because he can’t be bothered to heat up his own nuggies. You’re really trying to justify how hurting the worker makes you a better person, and you’re mad that the worker doesn’t see solidarity in that? You know you’re in the wrong deep down but have to lie to yourself, pathetic. How’s that for worker solidarity, “fuck you, I’ll pay your boss money,” thanks.
If you go to a place that relies on tips, yes it is. We can argue how it should be all day but you know goddamn well what is expected as evidenced by the fact we’re even having this conversation. Until it changes, YOU are part of the problem. Just go to a place that doesn’t rely on tips, this isn’t that difficult.
I’m not brainwashed, you’re selfish. Go. To. A. Place. That. Doesn’t. Rely. On. Tips. That’s it, why is that so hard for you to understand?
You’re failing the basic point. It’s a tip. It’s optional. You want security go for a job that guarantees it. Until servers become scarce businesses won’t change. Either way, not the customer’s problem.
Until customers stop supporting the exploitation it will continue, you need to go to a restaurant that doesn’t run off tips or learn to heat up your own nuggies.
I left the industry years ago, the places I worked at kept on chugging, the only thing that killed some was covid when the customers were all not going. You want to buy your cake from my exploiter, have it, and eat it too, all the while victim blaming me for needing to make rent. Real progressive there champ.
I mean moan all you like but until it’s illegal not to tip (lol) you’re going to get poor and non tippers. Deal with it.
I hope it does and you have to learn how to cook for yourself lol.
But don’t worry, there’s an endless supply of poor people on the verge of homelessness for the businesses you support to hire and exploit, you’ll never run out of people to look down on “for their own good.”
I did leave the industry, the last restaurant I left is exploiting some other kid now, fuck them I guess. I actually still go there (I tip, I’m not an asshole to the workers, I don’t just pretend to care like the eurotrash in this thread), kid seems like a good egg, nonbinary, kicked out by their parents for being nonbinary, lived on friends’ couches for a while and finally was able to get their own place (well, two roommates, but ykwim). I’m not gonna explain to them why I’m not tipping them “for their own good actually” and they need to go find another job, I’m just going to do my part and not be an insufferable prick. You go right ahead.
I don’t even know where you get the idea that people who eat out can’t also cook at home. You’ve got a lot of anger issues clearly, that sucks, Hope it gets better for you. But don’t pin employment issues on those who fundamentally are disengaged from the transaction. Your earnings are between you and your employer. Anything else is gravy.
In this economy? 15% is the new 20%.
Not if they raised the prices 20%, you wouldn’t have the choice to leave a bad tip.
Well other than by not going, but then good.
But then what do the owners get?
/s
Tipping is fucking stupid but it is the current system for how US waiters earn a living. So to fuck them over and not tip does nothing to change the system and only leaves them overworked with no money.
Think materially and tip your servers. Believe me they would like it to change too. It isn’t them that keeps the system in place. Big business has the money to lobby against our human and material needs.
Servers like tips. They’re choosing this employment.
Servers don’t want the system to change as they make more money with tips than they would from a “livable wage”
Former euro server here. Got a livable wage plus tips. Not the mandated kind, just the extras people would leave. That would net me 5 euros per hour above my livable wage.
Yeah definitely not arguing against earning a livable wage via being paid that livable wage by the employer. That should be the system. But sadly that isn’t the system and not paying a tip in the states isn’t going to do anything to change the system.
For example, the unhoused crisis is caused by the same ultra rich classes that keep tipping around. But I’m not going to pretend that the unhoused aren’t people with real immediate needs. I will give them money when I can. I will vote and push for change as well. Material concerns of the moment are more important to me than strict idealism.
Not once you consider healthcare, taxes, and social security.
The presence of a livable wage doesn’t affect any of those though?
The employer still pays FICA on tipped revenue, and paying for insurance has nothing to do with their wage
Y’all living privileged idealogue navel-gazed lives can do what you want I guess. We here in the working class are tired, overworked, and are trying to survive the day.
You’re more frustrated at people that don’t leave tips over the fact you are seen as less than a person by the owners that pay a pitiful wage. Look to the people that came before you, look up Mario Savio.
The non-tippers are complicit, they patronize my job and give the owner their money, but don’t think I’m deserving of any either as evidenced by them not tipping. My boss doesn’t give a shit whether I’m tipped or not, and if I leave over it he’ll have my replacement within the hour and the system continues.
Sure, be an ideologue all you want and “tipping is wrong!” So don’t come into my store. That’s the only way to make my boss feel it instead of me, if you come in, give him $20 and give me the finger for wasting time on you, yes, of course I’m mad at both of you.
So if nobody went to your store because they don’t want to tip the restaurant would close and you’d be fired.
You are being exploited by your boss. The people tipping you are subsidizing that exploitation. You want to be pissed, go be pissed at your boss or find another job.
As another user mentioned plenty of wait staff are in favour of tipping so also because of that it doesn’t change
And it’s a descriminative and unfair system. Theres plenty of data on it.
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Just go eat at McDonalds then.
deleted by creator
The business keeps going, it finds another hungry, almost homeless person to exploit, and keeps making profit because people like you keep going. Put your money where your mouth is and do not patronize these places or you ARE part of the problem. The only way our system changes is if THE CUSTOMER rejects it, victim blaming the workers is frankly kinda lame.
deleted by creator
Wait you take a moral stand against McDonald’s but are willing to stiff workers at restaurants and support owners that are taking advantage of them? This take makes no sense.
This is generally false. Most waiters would see more consistent income with fewer instances of subjective nonsense like ideologues who don’t believe they have to follow the basic cultural rules of the place in which they visit. There is an exceptional subset of waiters that would make less for sure but they are in a minority.
I put livable wage in quotation marks because it wouldn’t actually be a livable wage. The pay would likely be 1-2x minimum wage which is still not livable in most places
If we all participated in a “tip strike” and stopped leaving tips, the front of the house staff that relies on it would quit. Eventually the restaurant owners would have to do something about it.
Unfortunately, it seems like the owners would rather add a gratuity fee than rise prices on the menu and pay a decent wage.
One can hope though that eventually, tipping would go away. Sorry bar tenders and servers. Some of you may struggle but it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make meme
How about instead of a “tip strike” (aka “make the servers work for free until they get fed up because fuck them”) you do a “boycott” (“not fucking go at all so you don’t have to tip and you’re not forcing the worker to serve you for free”)?
You can’t sacrifice your night out for your ideals but you can inconvenience your server? Real magnanimous, thanks.
Trust me I already do that. I don’t eat out often and when I do it’s mostly at places with no table service (meaning no tip)
Nope. It’s not my obligation to pay their wages directly. They can accept no tip, they can lobby for a living wage from their employer, or they can find a different job. I am okay with all of the above.
The only way change happens is through action, not just crying about it. If you want change, stop tipping.
Yet still the only one hurt is the worker, the boss got theirs when you paid for your meal.
“The worker can leave if they don’t like serving me for free while worrying about homelessness” yeah, and you could cook at home or go to a restaurant that doesn’t use the tipping model (they exist), yet you chose to go somewhere that the worker relies on tips and enjoy in the exploitation with the owner, you are an essential part in keeping the business running the way it does. On top of that you exploit them further yourself by knowing full well how it works and who you’re really hurting and justifying it in your selfish mind so you can pinch pennies. Even if the worker does quit the owner just pulls the top application off the stack and gives them a call, there’s a revolving door of people willing to do whatever they have to to avoid becoming homeless. Most often that worker then just cycles to another restaurant an continues the cycle themselves as they can get another waitstaff job easier than anything else.
Not only are you literally changing nothing, you’re actively participating in the exploitation you claim to be against, you’re not the business owner, no, but without you his exploitation wouldn’t work.
ah yes, put the onus on the people just trying to survive while still patronizing the restaurant that the owner continues to make profits on.
If you feel this strongly, you should boycott all restaurants that make their servers rely on tips.