ISLAMABAD/WASHINGTON, May 8 (Reuters) - A top Chinese-made Pakistani fighter plane shot down at least two Indian military aircraft on Wednesday, two U.S. officials told Reuters, marking a major milestone for Beijing’s advanced fighter jet.
An Indian Air Force spokesperson said he had no comment when asked about the Reuters report.
I really hope this wakes them up.
India is in a really bad neighborhood but their defense industry is corrupt beyond reason.
They need to fix it so they can be as powerful as they should be given their shitty neighbors.
India’s shitty neighbors? Oh, come on. India is a really shitty neighbor themselves. Yeah, Pakistan Bad, China Bad, but India isn’t any better.
India right now is literally being ruled by a bunch of hindutva fascists. They are creating a religious divide, oppressing religious minorities and spreading industrial amount propaganda against them. May I remind you, India was the first one to strike Pakistan, and they striked a mosque. It’s definitely a religiously motivated attacked.
Also ever heard of their neighboring country Bangladesh? It was ruled by a fascist regime that was very friendly to India. Up until 2024 when a mass uprising dismantled them and they fled to India. At least 1,500 people were murdered during the movement, and India is giving these war criminals shelter. India has also been ever since running a huge misinformation campaign against Bangladesh, stopping imports and exports, denying VISAs, even threatening to invade in some cases. Because they miss exploiting Bangladesh under their friendly fascists.
Markaz Taiba, Muridke was NOT a mosque. It is a very well known terror hideout, even among international journalists. It was used to train Ajmal Kasab and David Headley for the 2008 attacks, which he confessed to in 2008. Osama Bin Laden himself paid for its construction. It was founded in 1988 and Lakhvi himself frequented it. How utterly ignorant you people are. Do some more research. Most Indians remember Kasab’s confession.
(Source-Storming the World: the Story of Lashkar-e-Taiba, Tankel Stephen)
(Same source. The book was published in 2011. Daura-e-Suffa refers to religious training, according to the LeT’s interpretation of the Hadiths and the Quran.)
The article you linked mentioned the seminary and classes. This is what it is.
ibid. Now look up ‘good Taliban’ and ‘bad Taliban’. The Pakistani establishment still follows the same protocol for terrorists today; kill the ones that are harmful to its interests, or if pressured enough, US interests and let the ones that act as a useful proxy against India to operate freely. Look up Sajad Mir, and how Pakistan denied he existed for many years, then said he died long ago, until he was suddenly declared alive in 2022 and convicted. A French anti-terrorism expert, Jean-Louis Bruguière, in his Some Things that I Wasn’t Able to Say has stated that the Pakistani army trained the militants in the LeT camps based on his interrogation of Sajad Mir’s French companion, Willy Brigiditte.
ibid.
To quote my other comment on c/India:
If you had been following the research after the 2008 Mumbai attacks, you wouldn’t be saying this. Also, Pakistan directly targeted the Golden Temple, the most famous Gurudwara in India. Funny how you didn’'t mention that. Honestly, read. Look up C. Christine Fair, and read her work about LeT. It wasn’t religiously motivated, it was against known terror bases. There is a list. https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/operation-sindoor-full-list-of-terrorist-camps-in-pakistan-pojk-targeted-by-indian-strikes/article69547986.ece with details about who was trained there, which attacks were carried out from there and when. You are literally years behind on the information–2008 and subsequent investigations have revealed quite a lot about LeT’s activities there.
Also, the Pakistan Army just held a funeral for a UN designed terrorist there. At the innocent ‘mosque.’ While the Pakistan army continues shelling across Jammu, targeting schools, houses and civilian infrastructure, killing more civilians than armymen.
Golden temple is also the largest free kitchen in the world, feeding many people. it is an extremely pure form of evil to attack the golden temple.
So… uh… the mosque that was attacked was taken over by the government in 2019. There’s no reason to believe that the continuity you’re implying between its use in 2008 and 2025 exists.
Wow. So you ignored the whole
Well, here’s the thing. Masood Azhar, who had disappeared from intelligence agencies for nearly two years due to international pressure, resurfaced in the same Muridke camp on 30 November 2024 and gave a speech. Forgive me if I, or even academics like the ones above are sceptical of Pakistan’s claims of taking over that mosque. Also, work on your reading comprehension. There were several points you straight up ignored.
Yeah, because they’re all from before 2019 and therefore don’t counter the Pakistani government’s claim that they took over the camp in 2019.
Fair enough, but I expect more than skepticism as justification for bombing what is ostensibly civilian infrastructure, and from what I know if India has evidence it remained in use as a terror camp after 2019 they haven’t provided it.
Edit: I didn’t directly respond to your points this time either because while they do prove the Pakistani army is in bed with terrorists, they’re not proof that this particular camp is being used by terrorists. Civilian infrastructure (or what is claimed to be civilian infrastructure) shouldn’t be bombed based on vaguely related circumstantial evidence and vibes.
The broader points were Pakistan’s habit of denial, which has continued till 2022. If they shielded Mir till 2022, why do you expect me to believe they aren’t shielding the Muridke camp either? I agree, India should provide evidence to the international community. But Pakistan shouldn’t be taken at its word.
Not only that, Azhar gave a speech there after being reported missing for two years on, again, Nov. 30 2024, in Muridke. Three LeT members as of yesterday, 2025 were reported dead by Pakistan itself, and the Army attended their funerals and wrapped them in Pakistan flags and did their janaza in that very campus. This confirms the camp was active as of 2024 and terrorists were present when India struck that camp. Otherwise, why would those three LeT members die, if it was only civilian infrastructure? Why would Rauf lead the funeral at that camp, record it and upload it, if that very location did not have any terrorists? Why would Azhar feel secured enough to be right there and give a speech and record it, making it available to any journalist with an internet connection, in full view of his location? This is not ‘vibes’ based targeting. It’s cold, hard proof of the presence of known LeT members. That particular camp.
Yeah I agree.
Yeah that’s circumstantial evidence, which makes it slightly more likely but doesn’t prove that the camp was active in 2024.
Do you have a source for the claim that three LeT members died? Because the reporting I found said they were JuD members who lead prayers and acted as caretakers for the mosque, in which case that’s your answer for why they died in the strike. Also, if they were indeed LeT members, maybe because they were there for any other reason? I mean it has a mosque and a madrasa, places Muslims would want to go to for reasons other than to attack India.
Why not? I’m not sure what exactly you wanted to happen here.
Because he was confident nobody would turn him in? I don’t see the connection between this and Muridke being active.
Everything you outlined here is, as I said, vaguely related circumstantial evidence that only serves as evidence if you’re already convinced Muridke was being used as a terrorist camp. You still need cold, hard evidence here, and I see none.
Why would an ordinary masjid host a well known, widely despised figure like Saeed? As far as I am aware, ordinary Pakistanis condemn Saeed for the Mumbai attacks.
From this paper https://web.archive.org/web/20110507114538/http://newamerica.net/sites/newamerica.net/files/policydocs/Tankel_LeT_0.pdf. JuD is a known front of Lashkar. The camp was for the purpose of Daura-e-Sufa, Daura-e-Aam and Khas are done elsewhere.
If it was civilian infrastructure, why was the man leading the funeral a famous terrorist, and not a local religious cleric? And see, here’s the thing. If you join LeT, you are a terrorist. Doesn’t matter if you just go there to sweep the floors. And no, ordinary Muslims don’t go to mosques associated with global terror organisations. LeT is officially a banned organisation in Pakistan, and has a huge stigma among Pakistanis because of its involvement in the the 2000s, like the Mumbai attacks, Parliament attacks and Red Fort attacks. Why would Pakistanis go there when they have condemned the attacks and called them unislamic? If ISIS opened a mosque near you, and you knew it was frequented by famous ISIS members, would you go there every Friday? It’s not just a mosque, it is an LeT mosque that spreads LeT propaganda.
Frankly, you’re just dismissing everything as coincidences. The original comment was in response to the article claiming that the mosque was an ordinary religious structure. I have successfully disproved that. I don’t work for the Indian intelligence agency. I’m sure they have far better proofs. Either way, I condemn this reactionary war. Neither side values the life of civilians and both sides are shit, not because what India targeted weren’t terrorist sites. Killing terrorists and destroying terror facilities doesn’t end terrorism, just postpone it on the short term. Actually cracking down on terror, preventing radicalisation, helping Kashmir, and acting against the bourgeois sponsors of global terror does. For this, Pakistan has to comply as well, and it isn’t likely to being a deeply reactionary bourgeois dictatorship. The end of LeT can only be accomplished by Pakistanis overthrowing its military government to establish a people’s republic and our own proletarians to do the same. But that is a far off fantasy, looking at the state of both the Pakistani and Indian people swayed by the PTI on one side and the various bourgeois nationalist governments on the other.
Jaish-e-Muhhamad: "Maulana Masood Azhar, a UN-designated terrorist based in Pakistan, has announced that 10 members of his family and four close associates have been killed in India’s strike on the Subhan Allah Mosque in Bahawalpur, Pakistan.
A statement issued on Wednesday by the militant group he heads - Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) - said that the deceased included his elder sister and her husband, his nephew and his wife, a niece, and five children from his family.
The group also said that the strike killed three of Azhar’s close aides and the mother of one of them."
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cwyneele13qt?post=asset%3Adeb867d3-47b9-4faa-9079-d92027b3dcce#post
Tell is again Modi himself ordered destruction of a random mosque in Pakistan for no reason.
Modi is a fascist. He’s a megalomaniac. He is responsible for Gujarat riots. I fucking hate him.
But that doesn’t mean I’m going to take pity on Pakistan and denounce how my country is responding to their aggression. Fuck Pakistan.
I argued about the response to the massacre (which, by the way, hasn’t been conclusively linked to Pakistan so there’s no proof of “aggression”) with the other guy so you can just see that. Here I just wanna point out that no matter how accurate or justified the Indian response was, Modi will use this as an opportunity to curtail democracy and consolidate power further. Therefore, cheering on the strikes as “responding to aggression” is playing right into Modi’s hand. If you want to keep what little remains of your democratic rights you have to start pushing back on this now.
Yeah, you’re right mate, but he’s talking specifically about the Muridke one. This one too, was evidently a terror base as confirmed by Azhar himself. Though it’s actually quite famous among journalists. Afaik, the one at Sawai Nala, Muzaffarabad was also involved in the 26/11 attack, from what I’ve read. Crazy how these people deny years of evidence collected by their own countries. Like, I’m just a normal person, not the intelligence agency and even I could recognise several camps based on reading foreign academic research on LeT and Pakistan. It’s kind of funny how well known they are, how often these names pop up in books and papers, including actual written propaganda, leaflets and magazines. It’s not some secret that only RAW knows about.
They are also threatening to completely cut off Pakistan from the most important river of the region which would mean instant mass starvation and catastrophe.
I have heard about Bangladesh.
It used to be part of Pakistan actually.
Pakistan was so fascist (basically military juntas all the way down) that Bangladesh rebelled and took its independence.
Bhutto was executed for this, and his daughter was later assassinated just for fun.
They supported the taliban and are why the taliban took back control and brutally subjugated all the women again.
Note how there are no Hindu communities in Pakistan, because during paritition they were expelled or massacred.
There are nearly as many Muslims in India than in Pakistan (200m VS 240m).
India is literally the only democracy around.
Pakistan is a nation of terrorists, which is why they hid bin ladin. They get what they deserve.
Wow, hindutva in the Fediverse. That’s new.
The points raised about Pakistan are true though. The government has always been pro-terrorism.
Modi is a piece of shit and is honestly an embarrassment for India. One of India’s strengths was relative tolerance of cultural diversity and a strong commitment to democracy (something you don’t often see with relatively poor countries).
-Them. Do you get what I mean? Whatever problems Pakistan may have—and however democratic India might be—doesn’t excuse lobbing rockets at mosques. Also what’s that about them being pro-terrorism?
I wouldn’t be so quick to portray the strike as solely a bombing of religious institutions. I don’t know which exact Mosque India hit and what its background is, but the situation is a bit more complex than you describe.
Many of the mosques in Pakistan are little more than extremist training camps and arguably have little to do with Islam. This isn’t unique to Pakistan, from living in the US, I got the impression that many Christian “churches” are more like corruption/tax fraud schemes and/or fronts for enabling political corruption.
Got a source for that? Because according to Pakistan 31 civilians, including at least two children, were killed in the strike, and while I’m not one to take belligerents’ words at face value these numbers are hard to fake.
The article you cited states:
This wasn’t a random mosque. It clearly had links to a terrorist organisation. The interviewees claim the place wasn’t tied to terrorism, but I am not convinced.
Note how they never explicitly mention what exactly they teach.
The broad spread of extremism in Pakistan’s mosques and their use by terrorist/Islamist groups is widely documented (just search it).
Note I can’t stand Mohdi and I think he is an embarrassment for India, but that doesn’t mean I am going to ignore the how fucking crazy Pakistani Islamists are (and that all Pakistani governments have supported and nurtured violent Islamist movements as long as they didn’t directly challenge the government).
Nope, secular atheist from the US.
But Pakistan is a plague, they support terrorism for fun, they supported the worst terrorist in history while pretending to help find him.
Everybody should be anti-Pakistan as a matter of course.
Can I be anti-everyone involved?
I mean, that’s fine.
I don’t hate India because they actually were fairly progressive in the past, even if they’re backsliding now.
You’ve been spewing hindutva shit throughout this thread so if you claim to not be a Hindu nationalist then stop carrying water for fascists. You sound like Zionists trying to “prove” that Israel should be allowed to genocide Gazans.
I’m not pro-hindu at all.
But fuck Pakistan, fuck them to death.
Btw, it’s funny you mention zionism.
Becauae Pakistan expelled or massacred their Hindus worse than the dreams of Israel.
Also: “Everybody I disagree with is a zionist.” lemmy’s favorite game.
Not only Hindus. Their treatment of Ahmadis is deplorable. They can’t vote (unless they declare themself to be non Muslim). They can’t pray in public, quote the Quran or pray in regular mosques. They aren’t considered Muslim. The constitution itself discriminates against them.
Literally wtf are you trying to say here? Yeah, Bangladesh was Pakistan once but that was decades and decades ago. It’s not at all relevant anymore today.
True, but recently, Taliban is breaking ties with Pakistan and creating ties with India. Might wanna read this and this. Also India supported the brutal fascism in Bangladesh, but that gets a pass, I guess?
Not entirety true, 2% of their population is still Hindu. And yeah, they are also not in great shape. But India is doing the same with their minorities. Why are you blaming only one but not the other?
Yeah, but not quite. India’s democracy has been backsliding hard
Ah yes. They hid bin Laden in back in 11, so Pakistan, their entire nation and population are still terrorists now. Meanwhile ignore all of India’s wrong doings.
I don’t wanna devolve this thread into whataboutism, so the bottom line, both countries are shits. I don’t know much about Pakistan’s politics now but democratically it’s not good yes. But India right now is a literal segregating fascist state.
They not only held Bin Laden in 2011, but brought back Sajad Mir from the dead in 2022. He was one of the key conspirators of the 2008 Mumbai attacks. Look up how Pakistan first denied he existed, then denied he was alive, and then finally brought him back from the dead after 14 years.
Pakistan has actually been democratizing these past few years, so at this rate they’ll be more of a democracy than India.
Yeah ok, I guess that’s a good thing?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pakistan-rape-rapist-released-agreement-marry-victim/
Lemmy is pro-trans, pro-muslim, but amazingly anti-woman which is always odd.
As opposed to India, the beacon of women’s rights. We just don’t like hatemongering
Compared to Pakistan, yes it is a beacon of women’s rights.
They literally supported the taliban, it’s hard to go any lower for any country.
India literally, present tense, supports the taliban.