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It’s only legal to make an attack dog if the cops own the dog.
Lol this reads like a Joe cappa short
Don’t know much about this, but some experts have this to say on Pitbulls: https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/pets/are-pit-bulls-dangerous-experts-set-the-record-straight-on-these-lovable-dogs/ar-AA1nG7F5
Out of curiosity, I tried looking up info on the attack/fatality rate of pitbulls outside of the USA (assuming Pitbulls are dangerous because the culture of the USA views them as such and this they are raised to be) but couldn’t find much.
The only one I found quickly was that they gave a high incidence of attacks in Japan as well, but the owners tend to be Yakuza or other gang members, so yeaaahhh…
People calling for the culling of all pit bulls would be hypocritical if they don’t also call for the culling of all German Shepherds. It’s a difference in attack rate of 21% for pit bulls and 18% for German shepherds so pretty close in “danger” (https://www.forbes.com/advisor/legal/dog-attack-statistics-breed/)
I doubt they would though as I believe most just have a bias against pitties.
Shitty people raise shitty dogs. Other shitty people see this and want a dog that “looks badass” and proceed to raise more shitty dogs. Of course, nobody will step forward and tell you that they raised a shitty dog, so you really can’t properly study this in a large group experiment.
As someone whos dog got killed by a pitbull and i got injured trying to save her a very pleasant you can suck my big sweaty cock to all pitbull owners. Without a license and training you shouldnt be able to own a dog that is meant for killing. Ever since that every time i see a big dog the first thing i think of is if it attacks me how can i kill that fucker. So yeah i dont give a fuck and even before that happened i supported the ban of those dogs because multiple times ive heard from distant family and friends horror stories about attacks. I know a girl who was 8 when she was attacked and she needed plastic surgery all over her thigh and face after an attack and my sister and mom(whos thankfully a doctor so she could help before the ambulance arrived) were there to witness it. I dont think you wanting to own a big dog is a reason to endager others health and lives. Anyone supporting the right to own one of those killing machines is off the rails. They are literally bread to kill.
The Venn diagram of people who own pit bulls and people that own lifted trucks that they can’t drive is almost a circle.
I think its a pretty vicious cycle.
- Assholes think big dog is cool.
- Assholes raise asshole dog.
- Dog becomes known as dangerous and even more popular with assholes while people who would make good owners now steer clear.
- Repeat.
No it isn’t
Those of us who have adopted and loved pitbulls for their entire doggie lives know that pitties aren’t inherently violent. People who have been victimized as a result of people’s mistreatment of these very powerful dogs don’t know that.
Liberal Portland, Oregon is filled with pitbulls, but it is not filled with lifted trucks. The city is just aware of how great they can be when you don’t abuse them into being bad citizens.
My pit died last year at old age from cancer. He was a sweetie who never did anything violent. We have a puppy now (corgi mix, hilarious clown of a dog), but I still miss my lunkhead every day. There’s something different about them and the way they need to cuddle at every moment of the day.
As a gun owner the idea that people are ok with pitbulls but have a problem with me pisses me off. For anything bad to happen with a gun requires human agency. I actually have the capacity to know I’m not going to harm an innocent person today. But a pitbull, their owners are openly playing a lottery. Every time you walk out side with it its like me muzzle sweeping everyone in my community with my finger on a trigger saying “I’ve done it lots of times and nothing bad has happened. It didn’t hurt you this time so mind your own business. My choices don’t effect you. It’s not my fault if your kids are scared of me pointing my gun around. My kids aren’t going to get hurt in my home if I practice poor gun safety. See, they love playing with it. That’s proof it’s kid friendly”
As dangerous as a gun and with less certain human control over it is not acceptable. I’ll straight up say it. I feel as uncomfortable around a pitbull owner as someone mishandling a gun. And in the gun world if someone is willfully and blazenly mishandling a firearm to the point of endangering people you have a license to shoot them if they aren’t responsive to someone telling them to stop (non-lethally ideally).
I don’t know about licenses but if you own a pitbull people should openly tell you you are the asshole that you are.
While im against guns, pitbulls are literally probably more dangerous than guns when “used accidentally”. Its no mistake that both my dog and the kid that got attacked got bit on the face and thigh as pitbulls always go for the kill. If you accidentally discharge a gun it has a chance of hitting a vital point and a chance of missing and a chance of hitting a less vital point of your body. If youre alone and an average person a pitbulls gonna kill you. If your alone with a gun it doesnt do anything.
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Uh yeah, you’re off by a factor of about 50-fold.
This is just fatalities and not counting permanently disfiguring injuries of which there are a ton more. Pitbulls account for the vast majority of these serious injuries and fatalities despite being only 6% of the dog population.
The white trash potato caricature is hilarious. Pit bulls are a dangerous breed. They were selectively bred by humans for their aggression, unpredictability, jaw strength, overall strength, pain tolerance, etc.
I live in a poor area that is full of these dogs. The issue is exacerbated so much by people with nothing to their name so they need a status symbol to appear tough. It’s really sad.
I always get confused for a few moments when I see these dog breed/ghetto hatred comments, but then I realize it’s just steeped in closeted racism/classism. It’s really sad.
edit: should check out @[email protected]’s comment here. Basically has done the work and narrates what someone actually researching and looking at studies would find if you do it correctly.
Do you think those people who feel the need to have a certain type of dog to look tough might also treat that dog a certain way to make it aggressive?
To piggyback, there’s a reason these animals are referred to as “the nursery dog” too. Pit bulls are incredibly sweet and protective. They will take care of your children as long as you treat them right
True but also not true. Pitbulls are a very deceiving risk. With a properly trained pitbull and owner the pitbull is unlikely to cause an injury, however if it does the injury is critical or lethal. Low chance, high impact. There are tons of stories about children being killed by their pitbull because today was the unlucky day that part of the pitbulls brain triggered and they went for the kill. It’s irresponsible to own a pitbull if you have small children. Pitbulls are great, although they’re a very challan dog to own which requires a diligent owner.
Until they snap and will attack your children out of the blue. So many stories of good owners with well behaving pit bulls that attack their owners.
No one is going to admit they regularly beat their dog after the dog snaps. Blame it on the dog, put the dog down and the responsibilty dies with it.
So many? Like, a statistically significant amount that would show in an unbiased study, or just anecdotal accounts from social media?
Someone already posted this: https://lemmy.world/comment/15228347
Ah, yes, the same chart from DogsBite.org that all the anti-pit-bull types pass around like highschoolers passing around a particularly juicy note. The website with an incredibly obvious and documented bias against pit bulls. Surely I can trust their spin on things over the multitude of studies that conclude that breed isn’t a reliable predictor of aggression.
I have no real comment on the aggressiveness of pitbulls. I have a dog we think is a dalmatian/pitbull mix and she’s terrified of pretty much any humans other than us and a handful of others (she is especially afraid of men), which might look like aggression from a distance, but she would run away the second they got closer to her.
On the other hand, she’s a serial killer of small animals and she recently got in a fight with our other dog (she’s 11 and grumpy and in pain from bad arthritis) and tore his ear. So she certainly can be aggressive.
On the other other hand, we used to have a roommate with a purebred dalmation and she was super aggressive.
So is the aggression she does show because of the pitbull part of the mix? The dalmatian part? Is it just her? I have no idea.
I do know I found a dog at the shelter who needed a loving home and I gave it to her. Which is the only way anyone should get a dog at this point.
Dalmatian are usually way more aggressive than pits.They’re a lot more rare than pits, so the statistics wouldn’t show that, but I’ve been in the dog grooming industry for almost 4 years and Dalmatian are WAY more likely to be crazy.
It’s never been about the breed, some people just shouldn’t have dogs.
Is it scarier when a pitbull snaps, than when a Chihuahua snaps? Absolutely! But if your dog snaps at people and other dogs, it doesn’t matter what breed it is, if you aren’t willing to train them to not snap, you’re a bad dog owner!
This thread is full of racist people who think it’s okay to be openly racist when it’s not about humans. If your dog was killed by a pit and you blame the dog instead of the owner, guess what? You’re an idiot and you were probably a bad dog owner too. Some people get lucky and don’t have to do anything for their dog to behave, but that doesn’t mean they’re good owners.
I’m an owner of a rescue dog with behavioral problems, and I am fortunate to say that the only person my dog has ever bitten after I adopter her is me. It takes a lot of work and effort, and I am absolutely certain she would bite other people under the right circumstances. Problem is, most dog owners are not like me.
Granted my rescue dog is a small Chihuahua mix, so at worse, she might break skin on your finger or heels and leave a small scar.
Very different circumstances than if she were a big dog.
Well, she’s a bad owner for not taking into account the specific needs of her apex predator; like a lot of physical activity and access to a fresh Weyland-Yutani crew on a regular basis.
Yep. Exercise, discipline, then affection. In that order.
If we did domesticate xenomorphs, we’d have to make artificial “hosts” for the facehuggers to implant an egg in. Since the xenos apparently incorporate some DNA from the host, we could even make custom ones!
My headcanon (in which only the first two Alien movies count) is that Xenomorph queens normally aren’t much bigger than regular Xenomorphs, but the one in Aliens was huge because she incubated inside the Space Jockey.
would the smaller queen lay smaller eggs and thus smaller face huggers though?
Alien 3 already has one that came from an ox (or dog depending on which cut of the movie) so at least it doesn’t need to be from people. Honestly aside from that they don’t really get into the interesting DNA combination stuff too much. Could be cool for one that’s like a breed of dog all specialized and whatnot.
Now I’m curious if a Chihuahua alien would be more aggressive than a regular Chihuahua or not
A Chihuahua alien would tremble, constantly, make quick jabs at its’ victims then momentarily retreat before going in for another jab. All while barking incessantly.
Now I’m hopeful AI can help provide us with a Chihuahua edition of all the movies.
Hopefully we could just grow a fleshy blob that serves to incubate them rather than making living creatures go through that!
I’d like to see a cat xenomorph. It will knock things off of high places, hide in boxes, and ignore you when you call it.
You would crossbreed a perfect killing machine with a xenomorph ? Madness
We have those, they’re called sphinxes.
You gotta get em fixed, and pure titanium chain is only thing that will hold em, not a good breed for apartments.
Just make sure not to have two of them together or one of them will kill the other just to melt the chains with its acid blood.
I think they’ve deliberately used their own blood before?
Be sure to clip their tail spike.
In alien ressurecrion they kill one of their own to melt their way out of their cage
That’s how I see pitbull owners
Congrats you cracked the joke!
I’m not an owner I’m but someone with a lot of friends that own pitbulls. Pitbulls aren’t some magically special, dangerous breed that is prone to random acts of violence.
Even if they were psychologically identical to every other dog, they still have bodies that were specifically engineered to fuck up human beings. When a lap dog freaks out, you get a boo boo. If that lap dog had a pit bull’s body, you might be dead.
Sorry you feel personally attacked when someone says pitbulls are dangerous.
Even if they were psychologically identical to every other dog
That’s literally my point - they basically are. I won’t argue that pitbulls are more capable of harming someone due to their physical characteristics. That’s just physics.
Horses are also large, powerful animals and they cause at least a few deaths every year by trampling or kicking humans when provoked, spooked, startled, or whatever - I’m not really a horse person. Obviously, large powerful animals can absolutely cause more damage than lap-sized animals. That doesn’t mean they are the equivalent of a monster from a horror movie that could rip someone to shreds at any moment with no provocation. Not does it mean that anyone who owns one is an irresponsible, naive threat to society.
If you are a responsible owner, the dog or horse isn’t an unreasonable danger.
Sorry you feel personally attacked when someone says pitbulls are dangerous.
I don’t feel personally attacked, but many other people feel personally attacked when someone questions their opinion on pitbulls. I just feel bad for the animals.
I freaking know that’s your point, that’s why I granted it. WTF?
If you are a responsible owner…
That’s a total non-starter with me. If one were a responsible custodian and guardian of animals, one wouldn’t have a pet in the first place. Pet ownership (ie ownership of an intelligent individual for the purpose of companionship) is inherently selfish and self-deluded, and whether you agree with that or not, pet owners cannot be expected to be responsible.
When we want to allow people to perform activities that are potentially harmful to other humans if they are not done responsibly, WE LICENSE THOSE ACTIVITIES.
Yes they are. Pitbulls are unpredictable, reactive, and strong compared to other breeds. They were selectively bred for those traits. They have to be muzzled and registered in my neighborhood.
Ah yes, I see. You have made assertions that align with the typical narrative and stereotype around a breed of dogs, then demonstrated the assertion’s validity by stating it is a belief held in your neighborhood.
I have completely changed my mind and will now ignore all of my own experiences and knowledge on the topic because a random person asserted a stereotype and stated that people believe and act on a stereotype. I guess that’s it. Debate over.
Any dog can snap. So why do we see proportionally more news stories about it happening with a pitbull…?
EDIT 2: So. Many. Downvotes. But not a single comment refuting the statistics with facts and evidence… You’re not flat-earthers, right? So don’t act like them. Use your brain, not your feeeelings! I love dogs. All dogs. And yeah, if my dog was a Pittie, I would be defensive too, but I would also be honest that people need to take extra precautions…
EDIT: You’re literally arguing against facts.
Comparing that data with breed ownership paints a fuller picture. Rottweilers and German shepherds are in the top 10 owned dogs by breed and none of the bull terrier(pitbull) dogs are in the top 25 owned breeds. There are far fewer of them making the appearance at the top of the list more impactful.
…and how many neighborhoods, insurance companies, etc have rules against pitbulls?
There is no way that the full picture of breed ownership is tainted by purposely reporting the breed as one that wouldn’t cause the owner to pay more for insurance, get dropped by insurance, kicked out of their rental unit, etc?
Most of the dogs I know have significant amounts of pitbull in their blood. Their owners are not pitbull fanatics - they just rescued a dog from a service and found out it was 50+% pitbull. The one friend who has close to pure (90+%) pitbulls literally rescued them from the streets. Like found the dog with no tags and no chip somewhere near where they live, spent weeks advertising to find its owner, and decided to keep it when no owner surfaced.
EDIT: Sorry, my fault! I thought you were arguing against the evidence, like many here…
Facts & science, please. I swear, I’m really not trying to be a jerk, but you make several assertions without proof. You’re saying I don’t have the full picture. But also implying we’re seeing so many news stories about pits attacking children, data about than being more dangerous because… there’s fewer of them? Legitimately not trying to strawman you or put words in your mouth, but that would be exactly opposite the point you’re trying to defend.
I’m fully supporting you. Your numbers are even more alarming with the context that a niche breed is making up many times over the number of deadly attacks.
Since you’re using different statistics to compare and come to a conclusion, can I ask what you’re getting the “breed numbers” from? @[email protected] has been throwing around the dogbite site but I wouldn’t go off that number.
Breed survey 2019: more puppies, yet fewer homes for pit bulls, by Merritt Clifton, Animals 24-7, July 9, 2019 (animals24-7.org). The most recent calculation by the nonprofit was completed in July 2019. Breed populations are determined annually by searching classified ad listings of dogs for sale. The last 3-year average of the total pit bull population is 8% (8.0% in 2017, 8.0% in 2018 and 7.9% in 2019) and the 10-year cumulative average (2010 to 2019) is 5.8% | View chart
Even all the things I’m seeing online like the American Kennel club don’t actually track realistic numbers
Every year the American Kennel Club releases our ranking of the most popular dog breeds based on AKC registration statistics for the previous year.
It just kinda gets worse from there
According to the AVMA, 23% of dog owners acquired their dogs from breeders, while only 7% of cat owners did.
According to ASPCA, almost 40% of dog owners and 46% of cat owners got their pets from word of mouth. U.S. households get dogs and kitties from these sources:
Shelters 23% and 31% Friends/Family 20% and 28% Breeders 34% and 3% Stray pets 6% and 27% Private 12% and 6% Other sources, 32% and 39%So I doubt you’re getting accurate numbers since the data just isn’t tracked. Just like all of these “facts”, it’s being heavily skewed and misrepresented. Hell, even EMpricorn’s “INSURANCE WEBSITE link” (it’s literally a fucking ad for pet insurance) just outright dismisses all this shit with the back and forth word salad
Abuse and mistreatment can play a large role in a dog’s aggression, and pit bulls are often subjected to such conditions. In situations like this, dogs learn to be aggressive and will bite humans as a result. However, studies have shown that pit bulls’ aggression is largely due to their living conditions, and they aren’t necessarily naturally dangerous dogs.
While many pit bulls can be held responsible for dog bites, it’s also worth noting that their reputation makes people quick to blame the breed. Other dog breeds have similar physical features as pit bulls, so people assume that’s what they are.
Sorry, I misunderstood. So many people are having an emotional reaction to my comments…
That’s why I kept it neutral.
Because if a pitbull snaps, someone is likely to die.
Right which is why they should stop being bred. They are more dangerous.
Dogs should stop being bred for certain features period. Beyond aggressiveness, it’s just cruel. It gives them years of health problems. Some of the breeds all have the exact same health problem (sometimes it’s an inability to breathe properly because of their head shape).
Purebred dogs should be illegal to intentionally breed.
Every time I have to see a spaniel, I cringe. The publicly available data (and videos on the effects of it for the assholes who have to see this shit to believe it) on their brain and skull sizes means that anyone still breeding them is just an asshole.
Thank you. This was so obviously my point…
Jesus that’s sad. Everyone holding your hand trying to walk you down this path of actually learning about how research and science is performed and how to look into a source and you still just decide to spew nonsense.
I hope you learn to walk on your own one day. Don’t stop reading and looking into sources just because you found something you like. All of your shit is crappy research that the authors conclude is bad data. It’s why the precious dogbite.org focuses on a 1970-99 cdc study, a media review study for statistics slaps forehead.
It’s obvious this meme brought in a lot of people who love to classify “undesirables” and a few willing to put up with the misinformation to actually try and teach someone how to do proper research without just “believing” from a few misquoted or misguided articles. I saw at least one person doing the work and realized your links and claims were bullshit so something was accomplished I suppose.
Because their stereotype can attract shitty owners who want a badass dog but can’t be assed to train or care for them.
Or they literally abuse, possibly even with dogfights, and abandon them.
Occam’s Razor: They are known for being more dangerous because they are more dangerous.
EDIT: So. Many. Downvotes. But not a single comment refuting the statistics with facts and evidence… You’re not flat-earthers, right? So don’t act like them. Use your brain, not your feeeelings! I love dogs. All dogs. And yeah, if my dog was a Pittie, I would be defensive too, but I would also be honest that people need to take extra precautions…
Abuse and mistreatment can play a large role in a dog’s aggression, and pit bulls are often subjected to such conditions. In situations like this, dogs learn to be aggressive and will bite humans as a result. However, studies have shown that pit bulls’ aggression is largely due to their living conditions, and they aren’t necessarily naturally dangerous dogs
While many pit bulls can be held responsible for dog bites, it’s also worth noting that their reputation makes people quick to blame the breed. Other dog breeds have similar physical features as pit bulls, so people assume that’s what they are.
From the very article you linked in the other comment.
Don’t talk facts when your source refutes your claim.
You… think one paragraph voids decades of data they’ve carefully collected? Lol, I’ve lost all credibility because this issue (like everything) has nuance…? You believe that source agrees with you?
Okay, fine. Here’s some more from statisticians, lawyers, non-profits, and hospitals:
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States
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https://www.avma.org/sites/default/files/resources/javma_000915_fatalattacks.pdf
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https://www.mkplawgroup.com/legal-services/los-angeles-dog-bite-lawyer/dog-bite-statistics/
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https://www.vazirilaw.com/dog-attack-statistics-by-breed-2024
Let me guess: they’re all in on the massive conspiracy to… let people know they should be more careful around their pitties?
think one paragraph voids decades of data they’ve carefully collected
Uhm… ackshually 🤓 it’s two paragraphs.
But in all seriousness, “carefully collected” is a pretty severe misrepresentation of the way the majority of these stats are collected. One source you link says 66%*, but wikipedia says 28%. This is an very large increase.
This discrepancy is caused, in large part, because the police aren’t very good at reporting on this kind of data. The article you linked, which I quoted goes mentions this, but it doesn’t really go into detail just how bad it is. The police system, particularly in the US has a lot of inherent biases that lead to problematic behaviors and assumptions. Some of them are about race, and some of them are about… dog breeds.
Long story short, I only really trust hospitals for this sort of data. Insurance companies get their info from the police, who aren’t reliable. Hospitals can have problems, but aren’t going to be problematic as our police system. Interestingly, hospitals also seem to report much lower numbers, like the numbers mentioned in the study mentioned by wikipedia versus the other numbers present. I wonder why that is?
And one of the articles you linked was AI generated slop that claimed 66% but that was actually a hyperlink to wikipedia’s claim of 28%. And most of the articles you linked were similar, clearly getting the data from the same place, but not actually linking it and/or having broken links.
Even the best source, the study you linked has issues when it comes to supporting your claims. It acknowledges that which breed has been top of the list for dog fatalities has shifted over time and only now settled on pitbulls. That source also acknowledges how dog breed identification is difficult.
And then of course, I won’t deny that pitbulls do bite and kill at higher rates. But you are arguing that that somehow makes them inherently more dangerous, when there is simply no evidence for such a thing.
And yeah, if my dog was a Pittie, I would be defensive too, but I would also be honest that people need to take extra precautions…
The problem with this argument is that is is very, very similar to arguing that it’s acceptable to be cautious around black people specifically because they are accused of crimes at higher rates. In fact it’s so similar that I’ve seen “pitbull bad” be used as a white supremacist talking point. (which is part of why this argument gets so heated. Usually I just enjoy the popcorn but I finally decided to stop lurking).
But I’m gonna be real, I don’t really want to argue with someone who just throws a bunch of slop sources they clearly didn’t read at me. Read your damn sources. Use google scholar or similar instead of just a normal search engine, so you don’t get AI slop.
And I’ll give you some advice: If you want this argument to be well accepted in the future, you should throw in some points that make it clearly, distinctly separate from the white supremacist version of it. Some acknowledgement of the police being bad, or some acknowledgement of pitbull owners or some acknowledgement of how pitbulls don’t rank top in bite strength (at least, according to two of the sources you linked). You complained about getting downvoted when you just posted stats but that’s because people don’t see those stats are an argument about pitbulls, they see someone preparing a setup for “What if I told you some races of people were inherently more dangerous?”.
As an endnote, human race isn’t real. Perhaps this applies to dog breeds as well, which one commenter noted but you just dismissed it and threw a bunch of slop articles at them instead.
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Because most people can’t identify one and use it for any mid size dog.
See: Rottweiler, doberman in previous years.
Edit: that includes cops. Same thing applies to police reports. Guess what insurance adjustors use as part of determining insurance rates?
That isn’t the slam dunk of info you think it is.
No one said it was a slam dunk? If you won’t accept statistics by non-profit organizations trying to provide people with knowledge, facts, and legal info… What would convince you that any one breed of dog is more dangerous than others?
What would convince you that any one breed of dog is more dangerous than others?
Pretty much nothing since that isn’t how it works.
There are some breeds that require more knowledge, experience, and time to handle properly. That includes the various breeds colloquially referred to as pitbulls, as well as German shephards, mastiffs, huskies, etc. I’d say most breeds with a job need knowledge and attention.
But the “danger” part is an issue with the owner (or previous owner). The only foster dogs I’ve ever been concerned about have been abused, whether by ignoring them, not feeding them, physically abusing them, or otherwise.
I can say I have a not insignificant amount of experience with quite a few breeds, and I can also say that blaming a breed is nonsensical.
And the only dog in my home right now is a corgi.
Edit: You’re clearly interested only in your opinion and not the reality of dog behavior. So I won’t bother further engaging with you, enjoy your day. I will simply note that health organizations such as the CDC note these same issues with statistics, and firmly recommend against breed-specific legislation for a reason. That, of course, may change under HHS Brainworms, but the actual data is quite clear.
As it does in many other areas, the controversial nature of the discussion poisons the well on sources supporting either view. The days of ‘here’s a study saying…’ being a useful tactic in anything are kind of dead. Most discussions can have reliable-sounding sources to support contradictory points. It gets hard to find the truth about anything without engaging in in-depth meta-analysis, let alone in a place like a comments section under a webcomic.
That is a very poor argument. Non-profit organizations lie about their statistics and their so-called facts all the time.
PETA is non-profit. Autism Speaks is non-profit. Anti-vax groups are non-profit. All sorts of groups dedicated to promoting authoritarian regimes are non-profit. And they all push a lot of bullshit that they claim to be facts and statistics.
So. Many. Downvotes. But not a single comment refuting the statistics with facts and evidence…
Yes, because it’s clear as day that you’re a closeted racist. The argument that you’re trying to push, the dishonest appeal to statistics, even the language that you use – you’re trying to normalise the idea that some “breeds” are more dangerous than others, but you’re too scared to say that even though you’re talking about dogs, what you actually have in mind are humans. Go on, don’t be shy, show us your twitter alt where instead of fatal attack statistic you post crime rate graphs and pretend that it’s evidence that black people don’t serve rights.
That is a wild leap to make. Just mind boggling. Dogs are not people, and people are not dogs. If that were not the case, a lot of the behavior and culture around dogs would be alarming, at best.
You’re misrepresenting my argument. We both agree that dogs are not people and people are not dogs, and that having a specific opinion about dog breeds is different from having a specific opinion about race.
What I’m saying is that, even if you set aside questions of data reliability, there are dozens if not hundreds of ways to interpret the graph that everyone in this thread keeps posting. What if all dog breeds are equally aggressive, but only some are physically capable of killing a human? What if dog breeds that look more aggressive attract irresponsible owners that train them to be more aggressive and intentionally put them into dangerous situations around other humans? Of all the possible conclusions, that guy jumps to some breeds are just inherently more dangerous than others. This is the same logical leap that a racist follows when confronted with statistics about crime rate vs race.
And it’s not just that. Notice their language. Their comment is phrased like a question rather than a statement, a pattern that not-so-pleasant people are notorious for (look up “JAQing off”). The EDIT uses classic catchphrases like “Use your brain, not your feeeelings!”. This fits the verbiage of a modern internet racist to a tee.
Look, what I said about the alt twitter account was an exaggeration. Maybe the guy is genuinely not racist. But even if they are, why should I bother differentiating between a racist and someone whose arguments, language, and misuse of logic is functionally indistinguishable from those of a racist? The moment racism starts to enter the mainstream (due to a right-wing government or similar), I expect people like that to put up no resistance.
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‘Pit bull’ doesn’t even have a real definition. It’s sometimes considered a breed or sometimes a family or class and may include more than a dozen different breeds and their mutts depending on who is counting.
Both the CDC and AVMA say there is no sufficiently reliable source for breed data related to dog attacks.
DogsBite.org literally states their objective is convincing people pit bulls are dangerous and claims they can reliably ID a breed from a photograph.
So go pound sand with that ‘facts’ horseshit.
Even if we wanted to ignore those problems and take it seriously as a source, it completely neglects the only relevant question of the proportion of dogs within a breed that attack. Without reliable information about the sizes of the populations of included breeds, the chart is useless.
Real research on this exists.
CONCLUSION Maulings by dogs can cause terrible injuries47 and death—and it is natural for those dealing with the victims to seek to address the immediate causes. However as Duffy et al (2008) wrote of their survey based data: “The substantial within-breed variation…suggests that it is inappropriate to make predictions about a given dog’s propensity for aggressive behavior based solely on its breed.” While breed is a factor, the impact of other factors relating to the individual animal (such as training method, sex and neutering status), the target (e.g. owner versus stranger), and the context in which the dog is kept (e.g. urban versus rural) prevent breed from having significant predictive value in its own right. Also the nature of a breed has been shown to vary across time, geographically, and according to breed subtypes such as those raised for conformation showing versus field trials.37 Given that breed is a poor sole predictor of aggressiveness and pit bull-type dogs are not implicated in controlled studies it is difficult to support the targeting of this breed as a basis for dog bite prevention. If breeds are to be targeted a cluster of large breeds would be implicated including the German shepherd and shepherd crosses and other breeds that vary by location.
Weird, every researcher seems to use this same term.
So go pound sand with that ‘facts’ horseshit.
Oh, those pesky “”““facts””“”! You don’t like my sources, that’s fine. I included 8 more in my other comment, starting with Wikipedia:
The only reputable org having a likely informed and less biased conversation about real research on that list is the AVMA which states in the link you posted:
In contrast to what has been reported in the news media, the data from this study CANNOT be used to infer any breed-specific risk for dog bite fatalities…
Note that the emphasis was theirs.
While I suppose it is possible that one of those lawyers from the other links has done a responsible job of representing the facts and isn’t just an ambulance chaser, you clearly didn’t read your own sources, so I don’t see any reason to waste my time on it either.
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Yeah, people think pitbulls are dangerous because of racism. 🙄
EDIT: So. Many. Downvotes. But not a single comment refuting the statistics with facts and evidence… You’re not flat-earthers, right? So don’t act like them. Use your brain, not your feeeelings! I love dogs. All dogs. And yeah, if my dog was a Pittie, I would be defensive too, but I would also be honest that people need to take extra precautions…
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Yeah, people think black men are dangerous because of racism. 🙄
That’s what you sound like, smh.
Disclaimer: I’ve not vetted the statistic I posted but seen similar numbers before.
Edit: As has been rightly pointed out the above statistic does not say what I thought it did. A better version would be:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_StatesThis is tracking who died, not who fired the shot.
Jep, like I said did not look too closely into it. Anyway, the point is that taking statistics in a vacuum can lead to strange conclusions.
Btw the gist I was going for, that statistically black men make up a disproportionate chunk of the homicide perpetrators in the US is a fact.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_StatesStill misleading on its own as it does not give insight into the cause of the discrepancy. Racists use this all the time to justify bigotry.
U.S. Homicide Gun Deaths
How do you know you have a weak argument? You post “evidence” that has no relevance to the discussion because you’re so focused on your feeeelings you ignore facts and statistics.
Yes, I did not look too closely into the statistic in the picture but see my other comment where I provided a more relevant statistic.
You’re getting downvoted but you’re right, if it was a wealthy white people dog it wouldn’t be banned everywhere.
Not a ton of latinos in the UK, and they’re banned there.
Right that’s why I phrased my comment the way I did. Depending on the area it might be perceived as a trailer trash dog, a dog poor black people have, or a Latino dog. Either way, plenty of other breeds just as risky, if not more risky, that people don’t perceive the same way.
Do any of them meet the classic stereotype when it comes to like licking infants’ faces n stuff? No offense to your buddies of course!
The trope would be something like:
MY loving family pet (ADescendantOfWolvesWithABiteForceOf230PoundsPerSquareInch) would never hurt a fly
(Of course it’s just a different risk tolerance like we all have with all kinds of things)
None of them have kids, but I’ve spent a lot of time around my friends and their dogs. They are just dogs. Many of them are extremely affectionate. When I was a kid my family had a German Shepherd with showdog lineage and my mother had a lifetime of experience of owning and training dogs. Our shepherd exhibited substantially more aggression than any of my friends’ pitbulls.
Yes, big, strong dogs can do more harm than smaller dogs and pitbulls can be big and strong. That does make them capable of being more dangerous if something goes wrong. I can’t argue with that. However, the mentality is that pitbulls are inherently violent or behave violently by natur is what I call bullshit on.
Pitbulls are regarded as dangerous and vicious. They are also abused and subjected to fighting by their owners because that is their reputation. It’s so fucked up. Then, bad owners want a scary dog, treat it poorly, don’t train it and when it acts like any mistreated, traumatized animal would the world declares it inherently violent. There is such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy.
Hell, one friend has a pit mix that is like < 30 lbs, full grown. I’ve never seen it do anything any other dog wouldn’t do. Still, he’s extremely careful with it because of the prejudice people have against the breed. Once I was hiking with him and another man with his own dog crossed our path. My friend stepped off the path and kept the dog seated and on a short leash in an attempt to reassure the guy well before he got close to us. The guy immediately asked my friend if his dog was a pitbull and berated him as he passed, furious that my friend would be irresponsible enough to own a pitbull.
Many of the people in this thread remind me of that man.
Another story. One of my coworkers paid thousands of dollars in vet bills for their neighbor in order to stop them from trying to get my coworkers dog put down (and it wasn’t one of those “scary” breeds). All because the neighbors small, aggressive dog charged the bigger dog. In its attempt to get away, the bigger dog scrambled and accidentally stepped on the smaller dog and injured it. A poorly trained, off leash small dog almost cost a perfectly average dog it’s life because the owners didn’t bother to restrain it… but the bad owners made out in the end.
One last story. I was hiking with the tankiest, strongest pitbull of all the ones I know. This guy doesn’t want anything to do with other dogs. It’s not aggressive - it’s frightened. We came across another hiker with their dog… the hiker said his dog was friendly and my friend immediately stated that their dog wasn’t interested in making new friends. The hiker ignored the statement and let go of their dog’s leash, letting the dog rush the pitbull tank barking and running circles around it. The pitbull panicked and couldn’t get away and my friend had to try to keep the other dog away from the pitbull for the pitbull’s sake. No harm was done beyond a poor, stressed out pitbull and a pissed off friend.
Should pitbulls exist? I’m indifferent, especially when it comes to purebreds. That doesn’t mean that I want them exterminated or left to rot in shelters. Just let dogs be dogs. Try to make sure puppies come out healthy and worry less about whether they look the way you want them to.
If they aren’t special why do large pet groomers like Petsmart ban them? Seems like a lot of lost money.
Please tell me you see the fallacy here. “If they aren’t dangerous why are some people scared of them” has been used to hurt way too many people for you not to see the fallacy.
Has anyone here played Aliens: The Dark Descent ?
?!
Answer the question.
Happiness is a warm
gunface hug!Shoutout to their cousins, the head crab and the flood <3
I’ll have you know that Lamar has been de-beaked and will only cuddle with your head.
Dude, my pet flood would never…! Jenkins is just the sweetest!
Face cuddles!
I would be curious how the “owner” doesn’t get attacked, didn’t know xenomorphs could be “friendly”
So you did not watch the movies?
I watched alien and aliens, nothing about it seeing humans as anything more than a target.
In Aliens 3, the xenomorph can tell Ripley’s been impregnated and backs off.
ETA: fuckin’ spoiler alert, i guess?
In Alien 4 or whatever the hybridized xenomorph sees Ripley as its momma.
not sure I like the cartoon with the rape alien attached to a little girl.
I think you’re going to deep on the subtext here but that kid IS dead or will be dead so…
it’s not really subtext. Alien is a movie that is explicitly about rape and unwanted pregnancy, and seeing that imagery deployed flippantly on a cartoon child is squicky.
