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- cross-posted to:
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Hong Kong officials have singled out at least two schools for singing the Chinese national anthem “too softly”.
Teachers at a third school have been asked to help students “cultivate habit and confidence” in singing it.
Hong Kong has redoubled the emphasis on “patriotic” education since 2020 when China cracked down on the city’s pro-democracy movement.
Officials said students’ voices at the Hong Kong and Macau Lutheran Church Primary School were “soft and weak” and “should be strengthened”. At Yan Chai Hospital Lim Por Yen Secondary School, teachers were told to “help students develop the habit of singing the national anthem loudly in unison”.
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Shit like this is why the kneeling protests in the states never bothered me. I’m proud to live in a country with freedom of expression. This kind of forced nationalism is a cancer
Don’t American school kids all have to like salute their flag and pledge themselves or some shit each morning?
It’s not mandatory but yeah. Some dumb fuck teachers and administrators have tried to make it mandatory but the courts never agree with them. It’s a weird Cold War relic I wish would just go away.
No one is keeping track of how enthusiastically they do it or writing official reports on it or encouraging more of it. It’s the interest the govt takes in it that makes it weird(er).
Not that long ago in my public school the most I could get away without detention was standing facing the flag and not speaking -and that was only because my homeroom teacher was fairly lax and I was the only objector.
Punishments for not participating were real and I can’t say the school wouldn’t have come up with a more formalized patriotism monitoring if more students rejected it as a movement. 🤷♂️
There are a lot of places in the US where ideas from the 1800s are still prevalent, because they’re so lacking in diversity that there is no one to point out the crimes.
Growing up in rural northern Michigan, I wasn’t allowed to take the class our drama teacher taught about making costumes because I was a boy. That same drama department, for a production of West Side Story, got spray tans for all the kids playing Puerto Rican characters. They’re still known as one of the best drama programs in the area.
Louisiana schools will soon all have the ten commandments posted too. They just passed that as law there.
There’s no way that doesn’t get struck down though, right?
It really should be a slam-dunk. The constitution isn’t unclear about separation of state and religion. At all.
I’m guessing the state knows this, but figured they’d get credit with the Gilead crowd for even trying.
A cool org like the Satanic Temple will ask that their own seven tenants be displayed as well.
This will cause the Christian right to lose their minds. Who could have ever seen this coming? They will say that it will corrupt the children. They will not let the tenants be posted. Raging mobs of Concerned Christian Parents will yell at their school boards.
Cue lawsuits from the Satanic Temple.
Suddenly and quietly, the lawmakers realize that they haven’t yet broken the courts completely and they’ll roll back the ten commandments requirement. From the side of their mouths, they’ll blame the evil, godless liberals for the downfall of the US. You see, it’d all be milk and honey if we didn’t ban Jesus (you probably haven’t heard of him, right?) from the children.
It’s the same song and dance every fucking time. Please donate to the Satanic Temple and/or the ACLU so they can continue to push back against this bullshit.
And when they are sued for it, if they haven’t been already, it’ll never hold up in court. Regardless of the state in question. Fortunately.
It’s something some schools do. It’s not mandated by the government.
To add onto what other commenters said:
- It isn’t legally mandated, only customary
- If it was mandatory, such a mandate would probably be illegal
- Plenty of teachers and school officials (but not most) will be pissed/will punish you if you don’t do the pledge.
Lmao @ the Americans getting all uncomfortable trying to weasel out of this
Yeah bullshit it’s “not mandatory,” how can you have such a basic denial of reality?
Totally optional, that’s why every time some kid understands and abstains, the teachers and other students bully them mercilessly, give them detention, suspension, expulsion, and it makes national news whenever someone actually tries.
I bet joining the NSDAP was fucking optional too, don’t try to deny your christofascism that everyone just accepts because somehow it’s better when America does it
Idk, I didn’t stand for the pledge and they didn’t disappear me into a white van or exile me to Cuba 🤷
Maybe, and stop me if I’m going too far here, maybe you weren’t aware it isn’t forced. That’s fine because now you’ve been handed a personal account of the opposite to be true, I’m sure you will reassess you stance 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not all states or schools. At least my siblings and I never had to. We lived in 3 states and went do dozens of schools between the 4 of us.
My kids don’t say the pledge, they just stand there silently. I will Karen so fucking hard if they try to pull that shit.
Well, no, but actually yes
No
To an extent, but you expect demands for hegemony from western imperialists.
In the Hong Kong case, it’s the government - an agent of the people - which is just enforcing the desire of the people to praise the revolution. It’s not that the kids can’t sing softly. It’s that if they sing softly it’s because of the lingering influence of the colonizers. Therefore they need re-education until their minds are properly free.
I legit can’t tell if this is sarcasm.
It has to be sarcasm, it’s way too funny.
Sarcasm is a tool used by imperialists to undermine free peoples.
Didn’t know China was so fluent in sarcasm.
The Pledge of Allegiance has entered the chat.
I’m aware it isn’t mandatory, but no one made that clear to me when I was a kid.
I’m aware it isn’t mandatory
Here is a breakdown of laws in 47 states that require reciting the Pledge of Allegiance
That’s totally fucked up, and seems to be a violation of the first amendment, but IANAL
I believe so too. I’ve instructed my children to not recite the pledge (because atheism), and will absolutely make this my hill to die on. It’s bad enough we’ve got money with that bullshit on it.
It’s a stupid brainwashed idiot country and this shit drives me nuts.
The Pledge didn’t originally contain the words Under God, that was inserted in the 60s
1954 for the pledge, 1956 for the money.
I live in New York, one of the most northern and blue states around, and have my entire life. In 7th grade I decided I didn’t like saying the Pledge of Allegiance, the name alone sounded odd to me, like why are children pledging themselves to a country, when we can’t even really understand what that means? So I stopped.
The school staff lost their minds.
Luckily my parents taught me to be firm in my beliefs, if I had truely thought about them and believed them. So I stuck to my choice, and my parents backed me up on it when they arrived at the school 45 minutes after the Pledge normally ended.
On a side note, I had read ahead in my Social Studies textbook that week, and learned about Nationalism in Nazi Germany, and it had sounded strangly familiar to me. Not long after the Pledge of Allegiance incident happened.
They just “encourage” you to do it and if you get bullied for remaining seated, the school will ignore the bullies even more than usual.
You could have asked… I mean, you were in a building staffed with people paid to answer questions and inform you about the world.
Most of the staff likely would have told me that it is mandatory. There are news stories all the time about kids being bullied, given detention, and other negative repercussions, for exercising their right to not say the pledge.
The small school I taught at said the pledge every day, but the principal did regularly announce to everyone present that they don’t have to say it (but they did have to be there for it)
High, high chance they wouldn’t have been encouraging. Reasons include their personal political beliefs and the fact they tend to care more about parent reactions than students, because guess which group they’re on equal footing with?
I swear to Charles Darwin himself, they will get so much more reaction out of me if they try to force my kids recite that bullshit. (They currently stand there silently)
Sure, but I assume in some places parents (plural) will raise a stink about a kid that’s not theirs being allowed to not say it in the same room as their own spawn. Dangerous ideas, right? I encourage you to start shit if they make you, though.
I should clarify I’m Canadian, so this specific issue hasn’t come up, but I’ve seen similar things. For example, my local division has a policy, on paper, that pride flags should be flown in schools, but they often aren’t because the staff don’t like angry mobs.
I embarrassed the COO of a large organization once in front of approximately half of that organization’s management. Managed to get away with it. So yes, I can say with some certainty that being able to stand up and freely express yourself is character building and, frankly, fucking awesome.
It’s also a strength. Places where you can’t criticize things is how you end up with a the emperor has no clothes situation where harm gets perpetuated just because there isn’t psychological safety for people to feel comfortable to speak out.
Shit like this is why the kneeling protests in the states never bothered me.
Nationalism is a fucking curse. It drives people insane. These guys don’t love our country enough. Those guys love their country TOO MUCH. Its all so miserable and awful for everyone involved.
I’m proud to live in a country with freedom of expression.
Freedom to say anything that doesn’t upset the rich and powerful. Freedom to speak anywhere that the police won’t arrest you and the corporations can’t ban you. Freedom to travel anywhere your credit card can afford to send you and the State Department hasn’t banned you from going. Freedom to express yourself in any way that some Christian Fundamentalist doesn’t think will unduly influence his little rugrats.
Unlimited, Unconditional, Unparalleled Freedom (*)
- Limits and Conditions still apply. Please consult your local boss or party apparatchik for further details.
Civil liberties are definitely something that have to be continuously fought for. You’re right that there are a lot of elements that would love to see many go away. Abortion is only the start.
Even having an anthem, being bullied into putting your hand over your heart, making children onesie allegiance, is all indoctrination to nationalism. It’s horrible.
Lmao ‘bullied’?
They gave you swirlies until you caved, didn’t they?
Not singing loud enough - straight to jail.
Surprisingly, singing too loud? Also straight to jail.
We have the best national anthem, because of jail.
Real “please clap” energy
Ah, an excuse to attack an organisation that worships something other than Mighty Xi and the CCP.
Using children as the pawns too. Masterful.
Turning into north Korea little by little
Nah, they’ve been forcing kids to sing the anthem every morning almost as long as the US, where they got the idea from.
Nah.
The term “forcing” implies punishment for not obeying.
Stay mad 🤷
The term “forcing” implies punishment for not obeying.
Here is a breakdown of laws in 47 states that require reciting the Pledge of Allegiance
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Hong Kong has redoubled the emphasis on “patriotic” education since 2020 when China cracked down on the city’s pro-democracy movement.
Officials said students’ voices at the Hong Kong and Macau Lutheran Church Primary School were “soft and weak” and “should be strengthened”.
At Yan Chai Hospital Lim Por Yen Secondary School, teachers were told to “help students develop the habit of singing the national anthem loudly in unison”.
Many former opposition lawmakers and democracy campaigners have been jailed since 2020 under a controversial national security law that criminalised all forms of dissent.
More recently, it banned what has effectively been the city’s unofficial anthem, a protest song called Glory to Hong Kong, because of its “seditious” possibilities.
In November last year, the bureau introduced a new subject which would require students as young as eight to start learning about the Beijing-enacted security law.
The original article contains 508 words, the summary contains 143 words. Saved 72%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Oh oh say, can you see!? By the dawn’s early light 🕯️…
For all her reputation of being the Iron Lady Thatcher really pussied out of standing up to china on this.
Like could you imagine the difference if the UK had someone with some fucking backbone back then that didn’t sell Hong Kong to its Doom?
How is it Thatcher’s fault? I’m genuinely curious.
I learned that Hong Kong is under British control because it’s a leasing contract that last 99 years (from 1898 to 1997). So when the time comes it’s nobody’s fault that Hong Kong went back to China. Because China at the time would never extent the contract or even except negotiations.
Hong Kong itself as well as the Kowloon peninsula were actual territories that belonged to the UK after they were ceded to them after the opium wars.
It’s only the “new teritories” which were several smaller islands surrounding Hong Kong island that were part of the 99 year lease.
Even if no effort was made to secure the new territories, we could have and should have defended Hong Kong and Kowloon as part of Britiain, as the people wanted to be either independent or remain British.
Thatcher rolled over and sold their futures to appease China.
I remember getting scolded for not singing O Canada properly.
Why is this even a story? This shit happens in schools because wrestling kids to do stuff is hard.
Oh wait, I forgot, China bad.
Believe it or not, it happening in one country doesn’t mean it’s okay to happen in another country
Believe it or not, there’s nothing wrong with telling someone to sing more loudly.
In a normal context, I would agree with you but when louder singing is enforced by the State then I take issue with that.
Is your principal not elected by the school board (a municipal government)? A superintendent?
I’d go in a different direction - requiring someone to sing your national anthem is wrong. It’s wrong when the U.S. do it, it’s wrong when Canada does, it’s wrong when China does it.
I find national pride hard to understand, but forced displays of national pride are really iffy.
Fair enough. I’m just saying that the fact that this is an article in the first place is because of “China bad,” not because it’s anything unique or special.
.ml
Every other fascist tankie I see here is from lemmy.ml
cute
Did a non-teacher, government official scold you directly? No? Ok, not the same thing then.
non-teacher, government official
Do Principals count? How about Superintendents? State legislators who pass these pledge mandates? What about the school cop who comes to get you after the teacher writes you up? Or the cop in the ISS classroom who holds you until your parents pick you up? Or the school administrator who processes your expulsion?
Does the principle count, or do you consider that a teacher? What about the superintendent?
People want to make a good impression on their superiors. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Oh wait, I forgot, China bad.
Our Patriotic Anthem
Their Nefarious Brainwashing
