You must log in or # to comment.
This is only half the argument we need to be making though, because if the disk is just a DRM unlocker then we still don’t have real ownership and all these problems still exist.
At some point having a hard drive will become illegal.
Honestly if you don’t see the inherent problem with:
I can pay money for a thing ->
Thing can suddenly vanish from existence ->
This is not theft, You are due no recompence ->
This is totally fine, actually.
… Just straight up, you have a mental disability if you think this is fine. You are cognitively impaired, you should not be trusted with any kind of decision making.
You’re just telling everyone you are a-ok with being robbed, in some certain set of conditions… any exploitative person or entity that has any experience exploiting people knows that you just have to construct a narrative/experience where the conditions of being robbed that you will accept, slowly expand and grow over time.
You are telling the world you are easy to scam and trick. And in a world where you need money to continue existing, in the vast majority of cases… this is functionally suicidality or at least self-harm/self-destructive behavior.
This is a subsection of the Great Filter. If you can’t pass this test, sorry, you’re fucked, you are too stupid to persist much longer in your environment.
This is such a logically dubious position to attempt to maintain and argue for that I very truly cannot see another explanation for it other than… the person that holds that position genuienly is cognitively diminished.
If buying isnt owning, then piracy isnt theft
Like most people who aren’t up in arms about this TechnicallyTee hasn’t actually given it a seconds worth of thought. “Well I don’t play games on disc” it’s such a surface level retort. If you’re not going to spend 10 seconds actually thinking about it, why have you bothered to make a comment?
“Well I don’t have anything I think I need to hide, so privacy doesn’t matter!”
Same vibe.
The problem is that we dont spend this time complaining about any other consumer product like games. As if you need them to eat and live.
Don’t buy Sony products. Fucking done. What is there to complain about and give free advertising labor to Sony over? Outrage is retention wearing clown makeup. They are playing you all.
Thanks to population size and people never agreeing on anything, even a common cause. Voting with your wallet doesn’t work anymore.
Though don’t get me me wrong, it should still be done especially in the light of last weeks news of sony removing digital goods. Just that the insignificant hit we can do is completely undone by the masses still buying.
I still haven’t pre-orderd any game or paid above 59,99, but those things are still getting more popular.
which masses are buying?
Here you go. Ps5 already sold 90 million units. https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/Sony Or https://www.gamesmarket.global/financial-results-sonys-playstation-division-recorded-strong-growth-but-the-outlook-remains-cautious-1a5ecfa83784106c362f1205c86bc396/
So basically just sony made already record profits from game sales.
It’s not exactly good advertising is it.
there are so many amazing free pc games with no microtransactions, how are physical releases someones only way to play games?
In this big beautiful world, physical media is the most convenient way to play your games without hassle
without hassle
Disk read error
Somebody needs to invent a way to rip your entire library on steam to portable installation cartridges so you just plun-n-play them
A significant number of games on Steam can literally just be ctrl c ctrl v’d into another directory, snd still more or less work, or be made to work if you … configured Proton through Not-Steam,.for them.
Mostly only games on Steam that have some kind of always online DRM are going to throw a shitfit in that scenario.
People seem to forget that Steam and Source were built from the ground up to support what is I guess now the ‘old school’ way of modding a game: you just literally throw more shit into the game directory, edit what is already there, etc.
You can add /any exe/ external to Steam, to Steam, and run it via Proton. … /any exe/.
I’ve managed to get fucking Cascadeur working on Linux, via Steam/Proton, lol… there are a few games I tinker with where the model or anim ripper scripts only work on Blender 3.6 for Windows… So, download Win Blender 3.6, add to Steam/Proton, run, install Windows only plugin. Voila! Bit of jank, but it does work.
Any game that somebody has figured out how to do the equivalent of… some kind of script extender, to enable mods to do more kinds of stuff?
The way those work is they basically hijack or replace the original game exe.
Any game that has been reverse engineered to this extent, you can get to run independent of Steam.
I’ve done it with CyberPunk 77, NewVegas, etc, toying with my own mod making attempts. Its not too hard to futz with configs and launch arguments to launch straight into the main CP77 exe, just skip the launch/loader thing.
You can actually just do this kinds shit for quite a lot of games.
I’ve never actually tried this but presumably I can just download the games on Steam and then uninstall Steam and the game should still work right as long as they’re not even the steam folder. After all you can put games on Steam so presumably you can take them off.
It shouldn’t be that hard. I may look into this.
Really it’s just install the game, copy the local files and apply the steam crack (for most games), maybe repack it into a nice packed executable with some lightweight compression of the files for easier storage.
I suppose the worst thing would be to manage the exceptions to the rule, games that use other drm, or that maybe need some tweaking for the steam crack to work,nor maybe need to create some extra folders to work. But for most simple games it should me enough.
Imagine having an entire library of modern games on cartridge. Look up what game to play, grab it from the shelf, No DRM, put it into a cartridge bay and hit a switch, and the computer copies part of it to RAM and runs it. Just like N64, but 10,000x bigger.
People do keep trying to make modern “retro style” consoles. But the problem is they always have limited processing capacity so they’re always quite niche. Also the price of having to put everything on a cartridge of some kind would probably mean you wouldn’t get indie games on the platform.
I’d imagine indies could release “special editions” with physical SD cards sent out for collectors and fans about a year after release. There’s some indie games where I’d definitely buy that.
And even if the cartridges didn’t have DRM, so what? They already made a lot of their money
I think, most if not all games would need to be installed on the computer, as they are made like that. Running them from an external cartridge would be slow/problematic.
But at least I think it would be easy enough to have a way to mass generate rips for our steam libraries to burn on cd/dvd/blueray or to store in external drives. Then just have them installed like they were gog installers.
The crazy thing is, there’s no actual reason we can’t own digital copies of the media. We could easily own the rights to a digital copy, the game and movie industry has just unanimously decided that they won’t allow that.
GOG DRM-free digital games are ownership
It’s ownership of the file, but that alone does not guarantee that you can still play the game. If they revoke the online access and it’s an online only game you cannot play. If they remove any and all updates you could get for the game then you could not play especially if it has day zero breaking bugs or incomplete game think something like cyberpunk 2077, but it could be worse. This isn’t 1990 anymore we no longer get complete games.
Yep, but it’s also like insanely easy to pirate (good or bad, you decide). I guess op means a system where you have your (digital) copy and can sell, give or lend it, but still it would be “protected”, and big business doesn’t allow that.
We could easily get a lot of things, but we don’t fight to receive them. We think that the laws are supposed to be made to benefit us, but that stopped being the case as soon as we allowed corporations to influence things in their own favor instead. Everything in capitalism is a battle - you’re either fighting to win, or letting someone else win by default.
At this point things are so bad that we’d have to band together and fight like hell even for a minor win, and few people want to do that. Stop Killing Games is the closest thing we have to what we should have organized as soon as digital media started becoming common.
Well, I’m just happy that they can’t remotely delete the game from my PC’s drive if they do choose to unsell it. Unless they can with EULA clauses like “We reserve the right to remotely access and update the Product at any time” in which case, Fuck
They can make them unplayable with online checks. Hence why piracy is the only way to truly own digital media
Fairly sure steam has sufficient access to your system to do just that to the games it installed.
Even if they can’t, the publisher can always just push an update that makes it unplayable.
I’m pretty sure they can require an update before launching, and you have to be online every once in a while to play games on steam at all.
The industry makes billions renting instead of selling their stuff, and they spend it all trying to stop piracy.
trevor noah???
Famous people play vidya games too!
Ownership is a lie we tell ourselves to cope with a world that is perpetually impermanent.
I remember handing a younger sibling my copy of Dragon Quest 9 when I was about 12-14, it was maybe the earliest memory of me truly understanding the joy of giving someone something I felt was special. I wanted them to get a bit of the magic I got from the adventures that game took me on. I would be so overjoyed when they would update me on their play through, remembering parts that stuck out to me, hearing parts they loved that I had forgotten about. Sure you can absolutely still experience that joy of giving a gift, my friend group buys steam games for each other all the time. But that was my 1 copy of the game (at the time), I remember them hesitating cause they knew how much I loved it. And I think that made the game mean more to them.
Digital goods are not the problem. DRM is. Direct your outrage appropriately.
Honestly, in this case I think its time based licensing that is the issue. This would be very limited as an issue as a whole if publishers/creators couldn’t say “yea so you have the ability to sell this, but after X years you lose the ability to host it period”
Currently big companies like sony can just offload the blame to the license holder saying “yea we cant host it anymore” when in reality it shouldn’t matter.
Licensing that expire over time shouldn’t be legal. If you bought a license to use a product, you should be allowed to keep that product. Don’t provide updates if don’t want to, but if you paid for the ability to have and use a product (in this case media) it shouldn’t be legal to retroactively pull it without compensation.
Said compensation should also at minimum be a percentage of the product based off how much it was used, with the overall refund not allowed to go under half the price of the product paid. The fact they can be like “yea we don’t wanna host this anymore but we aren’t going to provide refunds” is ridiculous.
Being said, I agree with your sentiment. I firmly believe bypassing DRM for a product you bought and have the right to use should be legal. I don’t agree that Ripping a movie that you purchased that has a DRM component should be illegal, just like I don’t agree that removing a DRM component from a game I own should be illegal. If you own the product, you should be allowed to use it how you want. I can understand the exception of distribution(this doesn’t mean I agree with it), because I get it $$$ but the fact I can potentially be charged criminally for ripping a 4k disk, and then putting it on my private media server that only I have access to, is insane to me.
Correct. Digital goods with DRM cannot be owned by definition. Its a remote killswitch whenever they like. They should be banned from using the word purchase or buy on those products. They should be forced to use the words “acquire revokable licence”
If someone else is storing the digital copy for you, on a system you don’t control, it’s not “ownership”.
Eh, digital goods are still a problem. For exactly the reasons stated above.
-
Resale/gifting of used copies becomes more difficult and often impossible.
-
Your digital library can be taken away from you at any time, with no recourse.
These are both DRM issues.
People have forgotten because he turned out to be a sex pest…
But once upon a time Louis CK would get annoyed with piracy and sell copies of his new standup show at $5 with a no DRM copy of the file, just politely asking people to not pirate.
He made $5 million almost overnight which helped fund his foray into television with Louie which was on TV for five years.
This literally was the thing that took his career to the next level. Where he went from a comic with a pretty okay career to one with a massive career.
He used to do the same for other comedians, too. I bought a couple Todd Barry specials from his website the same way: $5, DRM-free media files.
I still have all those files backed up.
Your digital library can be taken away from you at any time, with no recourse.
No it can’t. Steam is not all digital game libraries. You are talking about a DRM problem, not a problem with digital games.
-
stop giving them money
Gamers need games to live!
the “i do what i want with my money” people are so annoying. i wish they would be on the suffering side for change, maybe it would teach a little solidarity for others.
i’m fine with them having no forethought or self control but the whining about the result of their own actions later annoys me
fucking horse armor all over again
them having no control or forethought makes thing worse for all of us. In my opinion, its in essence same type of behavior as throwing trash on the street.
i agree actually, i’m just so used to the stupidity
You should be able to get video games from your local library.
Billionaires were literally put against the wall and shot, so “using your library card to play video games” should be feasible.
At least where I live, they actually do! They have video games that you can check out just like books/movies/cds. It was one of the ways I got to try out a ton of games growing up.
When were billionaires literally put against the wall and shot?
Nicholas II of Russia?
Maybe “millionaires” would have been a better choice of words, my bad
somebody? thats trevor noah… hes hilarious
Any time I see this “I don’t understand what the problem is” what I hear is “I’m incapable of putting myself in the minds of others”.
TBF. we’re training the younger generations to accept it. They’re born and raised not owning anything.
Sounds like parents are shit in multiple ways then.
The older generations are definitely failing the younger generations, but what are parents going to do as individuals? Try to convince them that the only music they can afford on their shit jobs isn’t ok? My kids know how to sail the seas, but that’s not something I could expect every parent to do.
We need the same kind of outrage AI is getting applied to record labels and media companies. We need a metric fuckton of anti-monopoly hurled at the remaining 4 big players.
The old lessons. The value of a dollar (or local equivalent, obviously). Don’t “buy” unless you’re getting something that can’t be taken away, that’s called renting. That you, even as a individual, have power of the ‘contract’, you want the product, but they want your money, so don’t let them convince you your money is worth less. One important one from the Noah post: Make sure you have a way of getting at least some of your money back. Cockstar are doing everything they can to ensure they have full control of the market. Increased prices, no second-hand options. That spells a world where games stop going on sale too. The idiot who buys this con makes that potential one step closer to reality.
Oh, and one of the most important lessons; don’t shill for an entity that wouldn’t piss on you if you were on fire. These people who’re making up excuses for Rockstar making these anti-consumer decisions are only fighting against their own interests and clearly never received the much-needed slap up side the head they should have had long ago. What they chucklefucks are doing is a direct equivalent to a bit in Scrubs where the joke is a character is so nice he’d likely show you how to strangle him if you were doing it poorly and the cut-away shows him mentoring on how best to strangle him and cheering on the wannabe killer. Corpo loyalists, this is you, you’re the idiots telling them how to best strangle you.
I agree. People are nowhere near mad enough about companies doing everything they can to screw over the customer. At least have the backbone to demand lube, damnit.
Wait until you find out the ai rage is coming from inside the ai companies themselves. They’ve got a whole creator thing happening right now in Berkeley for this exact thing.
Yall are being played in every way.
So, you’re saying the AI companies are trying to get people mad over datacenters?
How’s that plan work?
I recall, back in the day, seeing articles written for a younger millennial audience that treated the idea of not owning stuff as a kind of virtue. “Saves you from the hassle.”
Yeah, I get that. I was full on piracy for decades, when netflix came, I just ended up pausing most of that. I naively thought that they had finally figured it out, and we could just pay for access. Would have been kinda nice not to have to manage risk on a bunch of disks.
Then my 4-year-old was in the middle of Chuggington when netflix just dropped it outright.
I then realized that convenience cuts both ways and if it was more convenient for them, I was going to get fucked.
To this day, the fam watches netflix, but if someone is truely into something, It also comes down getting curated through the torrents.
“What’s the big deal with horror novels? They’re not scary, it’s just inky paper.”
Yeah like he didn’t host one of the biggest shows in the 2010s era.
I highly recommend reading his book, this guy is an OG media pirate
Listen to it on audiobook. 100% worth it.
