Liberalism allows asymmetric power between the wealthy and the working class and the wealthy aren’t threatened by fascism, but they are threatened by socialism. That’s one of the ways in which liberalism leads to fascism.
When times are good liberals don’t directly try to implement fascism, but as times get tough and the working class begins to have unrest then fascism is the direction the pressure releases in, because given the choice the capitalists will take it over socialism every time.
Liberalism allows asymmetric power between the wealthy and the working class and the wealthy aren’t threatened by fascism, but they are threatened by socialism.
If we’re counting that as ‘leading to fascism’, wouldn’t that be true of every system with power imbalances?
In that case, when you say “Liberalism leads to fascism”, what you mean is “Liberalism creates the preconditions necessary for fascism”, just like liberalism creates the preconditions necessary for socialism.
Not exactly. Part of the characteristics of liberalism is that it’s supportive of capitalism and capitalism can be regulated but will tend to move towards increasing power imbalances, artificial scarcity, and environmental destruction.
Those things cause strain on a liberal society, and that strain leads that society to go into turmoil. Populism begins to happen, but collective resistance to the capitalist ruling class is strongly suppressed while other forms of harmful populism like racism and desire for war are allowed to fester or even amplified.
Capitalism is the dog, but liberalism is the neglecful owner that lets go out the leash
Not exactly. Part of the characteristics of liberalism is that it’s supportive of capitalism and capitalism can be regulated but will tend to move towards increasing power imbalances, artificial scarcity, and environmental destruction.
Okay, cool, so which system hasn’t tended towards that so far?
Because right now, it sounds a whole lot like “Liberalism leads to fascism” is only true in the most banal sense.
Socialism does not tend towards those things, worker-owners of a plant won’t pollute their own water supply for a buck. By democratizing the economy we give everyone a say in decision making, and the average worker doesn’t have the money to build a bunker to survive the societal collapse. Billionaires are literally planning for the collapse, rather than considering giving up their position.
There is insufficient data but we can look at the incentives of the system. If implemented as an authoritarian state running the economy a la state capitalism then we’ll see similar concerns. If implemented as a syndication of workers unions then we would not.
It doesn’t take a double blind study with control groups to make a statement about what a system incentivizes. A distant billionaire owner doesn’t care about polluting your city, but you do.
Liberalism allows asymmetric power between the wealthy and the working class and the wealthy aren’t threatened by fascism, but they are threatened by socialism. That’s one of the ways in which liberalism leads to fascism.
When times are good liberals don’t directly try to implement fascism, but as times get tough and the working class begins to have unrest then fascism is the direction the pressure releases in, because given the choice the capitalists will take it over socialism every time.
Not reining in capital is the fault of liberalism
If we’re counting that as ‘leading to fascism’, wouldn’t that be true of every system with power imbalances?
Fascism has a specific definition that also relates to capitalism but otherwise you’re right that those in power will cling to power.
Fascism is one such outcome that occurs when capitalism is under threat.
In that case, when you say “Liberalism leads to fascism”, what you mean is “Liberalism creates the preconditions necessary for fascism”, just like liberalism creates the preconditions necessary for socialism.
Not exactly. Part of the characteristics of liberalism is that it’s supportive of capitalism and capitalism can be regulated but will tend to move towards increasing power imbalances, artificial scarcity, and environmental destruction.
Those things cause strain on a liberal society, and that strain leads that society to go into turmoil. Populism begins to happen, but collective resistance to the capitalist ruling class is strongly suppressed while other forms of harmful populism like racism and desire for war are allowed to fester or even amplified.
Capitalism is the dog, but liberalism is the neglecful owner that lets go out the leash
Okay, cool, so which system hasn’t tended towards that so far?
Because right now, it sounds a whole lot like “Liberalism leads to fascism” is only true in the most banal sense.
Socialism does not tend towards those things, worker-owners of a plant won’t pollute their own water supply for a buck. By democratizing the economy we give everyone a say in decision making, and the average worker doesn’t have the money to build a bunker to survive the societal collapse. Billionaires are literally planning for the collapse, rather than considering giving up their position.
Which form of socialism has proven to not tend towards those things?
There is insufficient data but we can look at the incentives of the system. If implemented as an authoritarian state running the economy a la state capitalism then we’ll see similar concerns. If implemented as a syndication of workers unions then we would not.
It doesn’t take a double blind study with control groups to make a statement about what a system incentivizes. A distant billionaire owner doesn’t care about polluting your city, but you do.