Everyone else in that supply chain gets a living wage, except maybe the chef who shares tips with the waiter. It fucking pisses me off when people bitch about the fact that they’re asked to tip an underpaid employee instead of getting angry about the fact that the employee doesn’t make as much money as anyone else in the first place.
Where the fuck is the restaurant owner who isn’t paying their worker a fair wage? Where the fuck are the politicians who put a loophole in labor law the allow this situation to happen?
The waiter is even being villainized in the last frame, jesus h christ. Fuck this comic and fuck you OP for posting it uncritically. I fucking hate this anti-worker propaganda so fucking much.
Nobody gets a fair wage but at least food service workers in my area get paid the same as everyone else (Seattle $21/h minimum). Tipping is rooted in racist class division and we really should be pushing to end wage exemptions rather than perpetuate a ridiculous sales-commission structure.
This is always so funny… why would you boycot the restaurant? Don’t hate the player, hate the game. So if you want change, change the rules of the game. Get politically involved, campaign for minimum wage, waiters will get a minimum living wage, tipping won’t be required anymore… this idea that you can and will vote with your wallet is absolutely ridiculous. You will never get critical mass that way.
I remember reading that the only way a restaurant can pay less than minimum wage is if the employees make enough tip to make up for it. In other words if everybody just stopped tipping, it would force restaurants to pay normal wage right?
On paper, yes. That’s how it works. Although let’s not pretend that minimum wage is actually a livable wage.
In practice, most employers have a policy that reads something like “we assume you’ve made enough in tips to hit minimum wage, if you don’t, please inform your manager.” Not only does this put the onus of enforcing the rule on employees, it also makes it easier for the restaraunt to say “you’re the only one having this problem, so you must be bad at your job” (when the reality is that no one else reports it for fear of disciplinary action).
In the US there are so few that prohibit tipping and pay a fair wage. I don’t think this is a reasonable solution either. Legislation is probably the best answer. Even with that it’s so incredibly engrained in American culture it would be really hard to break. It’s a total shit system though that is only becoming more and more prominent as a way for companies not to have to pay people and playing on a deep sense of guilty charity.
Well start with “places that pay a fair wage.” At least there, you can feel better about not tipping, or tipping solely based on service quality. Obviously any restaraunt will still let you tip if you want to, why would they stop you?
Yes, it’ll be hard to stick to only those places. It will limit where you can go and you’ll have to do research before going someplace new. But doesn’t any meaningful action require effort?
There are places like Sugarfish, that actually ban tipping. That’s necessary, because otherwise we still stay in that cycle.
They also are adding a 16% service charge, which is kind of like a mandatory tip, but they have a good reason for it.
The reason is that if they would put actual price on the menu they would be perceived at more expensive (people are dumb) so they impose this service fee to look competitive.
I prefer that approach. Ideally what should be done is as someone suggested is to ban tipping through a legislation.
I live in the US and I’ve worked in the industry since 2008, and I hate the anti worker framing of anti tip culture sentiment so much. I’m a cook but my wage is just as reliant on tips as the servers. The servers and the kitchen staff do equally important parts of the job of giving people a good dining experience. Servers do more than just carry food to the table in a quality restaurant, and there are hours of labor that go into every plate.
Furthermore it’s not always the employer’s fault that the pre tip wages are so low that tips are necessary. The industry involves several players outside of the restaurant itself, including landlords, purveyors, HVAC and sanitation services, and so on. All of them charge as much as they can get away with, which leads to razor thin margins for the restaurant, and labor is always the highest cost. Many corporate entities diffuse this cost in various ways but small scale places like the ones I prefer to work in don’t have as much room to maneuver.
If people had to pay the full cost of a meal that adequately supported the staff, it would likely be just as much or more as the same meal at a lower price with an adequate tip included (15-20%) and restaurants would struggle to stay open even more than they currently do because people would complain about the high prices.
I wish people would address the system as a whole, including the capitalist mode of production, rather than blaming the workers who are victims of this system. I’m opposed to tip culture and I wish livable wages were guaranteed for all forms of labor, but in the current reality we all live in, not tipping doesn’t do any damage to the system, only to its victims.
This doesn’t make sense. If the final check + tips is the cost for the whole service, just include the tip % in the base price and pay proper wages. Margins have nothing to do with this, it’s just exploitation, it’s offloading the risk of enterprise onto the workers.
As I explained in my post, restaurants that do this struggle to stay open because people only look at the price and are less likely to want to pay it. Even places that keep prices the same and add a service charge receive many complaints and a drop in business. My source is that it has happened in multiple restaurants I’ve worked at.
I doubt you read my whole post because I also spoke against the system. I’m not brainwashed, I’m living in reality.
Edit: side note, all of capitalism is built on exploitation of labor, it’s the defining characteristic
The no-tipping policy lasted just six months at Chang’s Momofuku Nishi. Claus Meyer, a Noma co-founder, announced in February that he was ending the no-tipping policy at his own New York restaurant, Agern, after two years, citing slow business as a result of the higher menu prices. Gabe Stulman reversed course at his restaurant, Fedora, after four months without tips, telling Eater that guests were ordering less food than they had before.
People are dumb. Even if they should know they’re saving money overall by not tipping, they see a higher number and think it’s bad.
Thank you for the actual source! I knew there would be evidence aside from my anecdote but didn’t particularly feel like looking it up. I’ve had this argument on lemmy a couple of times so I find it a bit tiresome. Appreciate the support :)
It would be better to just eliminate the tipped minimum wage and have everyone earn the same minimum wage (and raise that wage to at least $20 an hour). Banning tipping would be hard to enforce, and some people like throwing some extra change in their favorite barista’s jar every morning. But if everyone knows that they’re all getting a living wage, and your tip isn’t a lifeline to servers, it will actually feel optional.
This is definitely one way to approach it, but I currently make minimum wage plus tips in a city where the minimum wage is over $20 and it’s still hard to make ends meet at times. I’m a single adult with no dependents and although I have a reasonable standard of living I’m by no means thriving. The tips are still a very necessary part of my paychecks.
The problem is complex, like I said in my first comment. Lots of sub-industries thrive off of milking restaurants, and simply doing away with tipping is not going to fix it. I just wish people would have some sense of worker solidarity instead of attacking people who live off of tips.
Most transactions are handled by card, it would be quite easy to enforce. At a minimum, payment processors could be legislated to not have the option for tipping. Banning the tipped minimum wage has already been done in a number of states and so they make minimum wage + tips, with that tip not actually being any more optional.
What’s really short sighted is not seeing how tipping develops into a bribery culture. We’ve already seen companies happily turning on the tipping option for the payment processor in situations where people used to never tip. Today you bribe your waiter to not shit in your food and berate you. Eventually you’ll have to bribe government workers to expedite (i.e. bother at all with) your paperwork. Gotta hustle and get that bag above all else, right?
Ignoring that possibility, it’s not like it’s a just practice in any way. Tipping amount is largely detached from level of service and factors such as attractiveness, race, how the person is feeling that day, etc make a greater impact.
You are ignoring my entire argument. At no point did I say tipping culture in the US is good nor have I defended it as a just way to distribute pay. It sucks, and it sucks to live under it in my chosen profession. But it is the reality that I and other restaurant workers live with.
My point is that you should direct your ire at the systems that built this shit show. Removing tipping with no other corrective measures doesn’t fix anything, it just makes life worse for people who are trying to make a living. Service industry jobs should treat tips as an added incentive for good service, but that’s just not the real world. I’ve already detailed a few of the reasons in my other comments but you don’t seem to be reading any of them anyway so I’m not going to waste anymore energy on this conversation.
Everyone else in that supply chain gets a living wage, except maybe the chef who shares tips with the waiter. It fucking pisses me off when people bitch about the fact that they’re asked to tip an underpaid employee instead of getting angry about the fact that the employee doesn’t make as much money as anyone else in the first place.
Where the fuck is the restaurant owner who isn’t paying their worker a fair wage? Where the fuck are the politicians who put a loophole in labor law the allow this situation to happen?
The waiter is even being villainized in the last frame, jesus h christ. Fuck this comic and fuck you OP for posting it uncritically. I fucking hate this anti-worker propaganda so fucking much.
Nobody gets a fair wage but at least food service workers in my area get paid the same as everyone else (Seattle $21/h minimum). Tipping is rooted in racist class division and we really should be pushing to end wage exemptions rather than perpetuate a ridiculous sales-commission structure.
Absolutely!
But the people who say “just don’t tip” aren’t fixing anything.
If anything you should boycott the restaraunt.
This is always so funny… why would you boycot the restaurant? Don’t hate the player, hate the game. So if you want change, change the rules of the game. Get politically involved, campaign for minimum wage, waiters will get a minimum living wage, tipping won’t be required anymore… this idea that you can and will vote with your wallet is absolutely ridiculous. You will never get critical mass that way.
Changing your economic habits can and does work. It’s just difficult, so people would rather not do it.
But yes, also vote, campaign, protest, etc.
I remember reading that the only way a restaurant can pay less than minimum wage is if the employees make enough tip to make up for it. In other words if everybody just stopped tipping, it would force restaurants to pay normal wage right?
On paper, yes. That’s how it works. Although let’s not pretend that minimum wage is actually a livable wage.
In practice, most employers have a policy that reads something like “we assume you’ve made enough in tips to hit minimum wage, if you don’t, please inform your manager.” Not only does this put the onus of enforcing the rule on employees, it also makes it easier for the restaraunt to say “you’re the only one having this problem, so you must be bad at your job” (when the reality is that no one else reports it for fear of disciplinary action).
In the US there are so few that prohibit tipping and pay a fair wage. I don’t think this is a reasonable solution either. Legislation is probably the best answer. Even with that it’s so incredibly engrained in American culture it would be really hard to break. It’s a total shit system though that is only becoming more and more prominent as a way for companies not to have to pay people and playing on a deep sense of guilty charity.
Well start with “places that pay a fair wage.” At least there, you can feel better about not tipping, or tipping solely based on service quality. Obviously any restaraunt will still let you tip if you want to, why would they stop you?
Yes, it’ll be hard to stick to only those places. It will limit where you can go and you’ll have to do research before going someplace new. But doesn’t any meaningful action require effort?
There are places like Sugarfish, that actually ban tipping. That’s necessary, because otherwise we still stay in that cycle.
They also are adding a 16% service charge, which is kind of like a mandatory tip, but they have a good reason for it.
The reason is that if they would put actual price on the menu they would be perceived at more expensive (people are dumb) so they impose this service fee to look competitive.
I prefer that approach. Ideally what should be done is as someone suggested is to ban tipping through a legislation.
I live in the US and I’ve worked in the industry since 2008, and I hate the anti worker framing of anti tip culture sentiment so much. I’m a cook but my wage is just as reliant on tips as the servers. The servers and the kitchen staff do equally important parts of the job of giving people a good dining experience. Servers do more than just carry food to the table in a quality restaurant, and there are hours of labor that go into every plate.
Furthermore it’s not always the employer’s fault that the pre tip wages are so low that tips are necessary. The industry involves several players outside of the restaurant itself, including landlords, purveyors, HVAC and sanitation services, and so on. All of them charge as much as they can get away with, which leads to razor thin margins for the restaurant, and labor is always the highest cost. Many corporate entities diffuse this cost in various ways but small scale places like the ones I prefer to work in don’t have as much room to maneuver.
If people had to pay the full cost of a meal that adequately supported the staff, it would likely be just as much or more as the same meal at a lower price with an adequate tip included (15-20%) and restaurants would struggle to stay open even more than they currently do because people would complain about the high prices.
I wish people would address the system as a whole, including the capitalist mode of production, rather than blaming the workers who are victims of this system. I’m opposed to tip culture and I wish livable wages were guaranteed for all forms of labor, but in the current reality we all live in, not tipping doesn’t do any damage to the system, only to its victims.
This doesn’t make sense. If the final check + tips is the cost for the whole service, just include the tip % in the base price and pay proper wages. Margins have nothing to do with this, it’s just exploitation, it’s offloading the risk of enterprise onto the workers.
You all have been brainwashed.
As I explained in my post, restaurants that do this struggle to stay open because people only look at the price and are less likely to want to pay it. Even places that keep prices the same and add a service charge receive many complaints and a drop in business. My source is that it has happened in multiple restaurants I’ve worked at.
I doubt you read my whole post because I also spoke against the system. I’m not brainwashed, I’m living in reality.
Edit: side note, all of capitalism is built on exploitation of labor, it’s the defining characteristic
Just gonna add a source to back this up:
People are dumb. Even if they should know they’re saving money overall by not tipping, they see a higher number and think it’s bad.
Thank you for the actual source! I knew there would be evidence aside from my anecdote but didn’t particularly feel like looking it up. I’ve had this argument on lemmy a couple of times so I find it a bit tiresome. Appreciate the support :)
This could be solved by banning all tipping, then all restaurants would have to display the honest price upfront.
It would be better to just eliminate the tipped minimum wage and have everyone earn the same minimum wage (and raise that wage to at least $20 an hour). Banning tipping would be hard to enforce, and some people like throwing some extra change in their favorite barista’s jar every morning. But if everyone knows that they’re all getting a living wage, and your tip isn’t a lifeline to servers, it will actually feel optional.
This is definitely one way to approach it, but I currently make minimum wage plus tips in a city where the minimum wage is over $20 and it’s still hard to make ends meet at times. I’m a single adult with no dependents and although I have a reasonable standard of living I’m by no means thriving. The tips are still a very necessary part of my paychecks.
The problem is complex, like I said in my first comment. Lots of sub-industries thrive off of milking restaurants, and simply doing away with tipping is not going to fix it. I just wish people would have some sense of worker solidarity instead of attacking people who live off of tips.
Most transactions are handled by card, it would be quite easy to enforce. At a minimum, payment processors could be legislated to not have the option for tipping. Banning the tipped minimum wage has already been done in a number of states and so they make minimum wage + tips, with that tip not actually being any more optional.
I’m not trying to be a dick but this is about as short sighted as someone saying they should make crime illegal.
It works in civilized countries, why not in the USA ?
Because different things are different
What’s really short sighted is not seeing how tipping develops into a bribery culture. We’ve already seen companies happily turning on the tipping option for the payment processor in situations where people used to never tip. Today you bribe your waiter to not shit in your food and berate you. Eventually you’ll have to bribe government workers to expedite (i.e. bother at all with) your paperwork. Gotta hustle and get that bag above all else, right?
Ignoring that possibility, it’s not like it’s a just practice in any way. Tipping amount is largely detached from level of service and factors such as attractiveness, race, how the person is feeling that day, etc make a greater impact.
You are ignoring my entire argument. At no point did I say tipping culture in the US is good nor have I defended it as a just way to distribute pay. It sucks, and it sucks to live under it in my chosen profession. But it is the reality that I and other restaurant workers live with.
My point is that you should direct your ire at the systems that built this shit show. Removing tipping with no other corrective measures doesn’t fix anything, it just makes life worse for people who are trying to make a living. Service industry jobs should treat tips as an added incentive for good service, but that’s just not the real world. I’ve already detailed a few of the reasons in my other comments but you don’t seem to be reading any of them anyway so I’m not going to waste anymore energy on this conversation.