• Ategon@programming.devEnglish
    97·
    11 months ago

    Calculation for MAU changed so the old MAU and the new MAU cant really compared

    old one used to include commenters and posters while the new one has that and also voters
    both are missing people who dont do any of these three actions though

      • Ategon@programming.devEnglish
        10·
        11 months ago

        For communities yes due to cross instance stats but for instances themselves (which the stats above is based on) no. You can just use post read times in addition to the three which will catch anyone who has read a post. Post reads are something each instance has access to for its users so it can do the unread comments feature but it doesn’t federate (but each instance self reports stats on itself).

        • swab148@startrek.websiteEnglish
          3·
          11 months ago

          Neat, good to know that there’s a mechanism, would there be a way for these statisticians to get this information? Or would it have to be self-reported?

    • Electromechanical_Supergiant@lemmynsfw.comEnglish
      124·
      11 months ago

      People who don’t do any of those actions are not active users. Lurkers are not active by definition.

      They shouldn’t be included in the active user count, because they’re not contributing any activity.

      • Ategon@programming.devEnglish
        133·
        11 months ago

        It depends on what is being called activity

        The standard (I say standard but its really just the thing most sites use since it boosts their numbers) that social media uses for monthly active users is to do people who have logged in. This is what mastodon uses as well

        While they aren’t actively contributing content they are still actively using the site (active account as opposed to dead account)

        I think lemmy should match up to the mastodon and other social media calculations so these comparisons actually make sense otherwise were just making lemmy feel dead by calling a different calculation MAU than what people are used to and since both calculations are being compared like they’re equal

    • wiki_me@lemmy.mlEnglish
      3·
      11 months ago

      Yeah there was no rise in the number of servers, you might say that theoretically it means nothing but in practice i don’t think i ever saw these two metrics not correlate.

  • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    732·
    11 months ago

    I mean, a lot of folks got reminded about Reddit fuckery via the Reddit Recap which heavily featured news about the API boondoggle.

    So, I wonder how many people were like “Yeah, I forgot to leave.”

    • BigBenis@lemmy.worldEnglish
      23·
      11 months ago

      I left then but forgot to join Lemmy until just last week.

      After nearly a decade on Reddit, 6 months without any Reddit-like experience was kinda wild. I thought I’d feel like I’d have more time but other things just filled the doom scroll void. Once I started getting my memes from YouTube I decided it was time to try Lemmy.

    • deweydecibel@lemmy.worldEnglish
      182·
      11 months ago

      I promise that’s not it.

      Nobody “forgot” anything. They were just too lazy and too unwilling to accept even marginally less polished or content-rich experiences. I think we all severely under estimated how much the average internet user has changed from a decade ago. The entrenchment is real and it goes far deeper than we realized. The days of userbase jumping from site to site might seriously be over. At least in the way it was back when Digg jumped to Reddit.

      And that’s really, really sad because that effectively means the boardrooms and shitty admins that run these sites can do anything they like and never face seriously pushback. As long as the content is there, the money will flow. Those of us that give a damn about useability, customization, moderation policies, user control, etc. they have literally no incentive to ever listen to us when they can reliably keep getting income from every teenager that only understands how to hit “Install” from the app store and literally nothing else.

      The active daily user count is probably going up because Lemmy is a bit more settled now than it was 6 months ago. There’s far less drama, the “main” communities are a little more decided, the 3rd party apps are all in place and more polished, and it’s all a bit less janky now, with a bit more content to boot.

      We’re growing. Slowly. Very slowly. There will be no great exodus, there will be slow trickle.

      • pelespirit@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        23·
        11 months ago

        You seem to think that slowly growing is bad, I think it’s great. We can get better and better at handling everything and then we’re ready if another great exodus happens.

        • rustyriffs@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          11 months ago

          There needs to be a post about ‘what will be the next great exodus’ so we can prepare for that too. 😁

    • doylio@lemmy.caEnglish
      1·
      10 months ago

      I joined lemmy back in June but slowly returned to reddit. Now I’m back on lemmy because I’ve noticed the huge surge in political rage baiting (likely by bad actors) on reddit. Lemmy is just nicer!

    • Fungah@lemmy.worldEnglish
      725·
      11 months ago

      I don’t want a huge influx of users. Lemmy is good. I like Lemmy. A flood of people enshitify it.

        • Sanyanov@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          11 months ago

          Best option IMO.

          Would allow this beautiful place to grow and fill up with wonderful people and content, and at the same time newbies will have time to accomodate for Lemmy ethos and customs, forming a healthy and wonderful community.

      • lugal@lemmy.worldEnglish
        10·
        11 months ago

        In my opinion, it’s not growth in users that’s the problem but in capital. The more the platform wants to earn, the shittier it gets. And since lemmy isn’t going to earn anything, it ain’t get shitty

        • rglullis@communick.newsEnglish
          2·
          10 months ago

          There is no problem is having business offering hosting services, and if we want to have more users we will need professional support.

          IOW, the problem is not with “capital” or “the profit motive”, but Corporativism.

          • lugal@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            10 months ago

            IOW, the problem is not with “capital” or “the profit motive”, but Corporativism.

            Can you elaborate on the difference?

            • rglullis@communick.newsEnglish
              3·
              10 months ago

              A farmer that is selling oranges, a brewer who is selling beer or an email provider like Tutanota are still looking for a profit and will only work for money. But they are all on a different league as the 5 “BigFood” who buys orange farms to sell orange juice to Walmart, or InBev who monopolizes the beer market, or Google/AWS who tries to ensure they are the only ones who can send email.

      • stevehobbes@lemy.lolEnglish
        8·
        10 months ago

        Lemmy broadly is very group-think right now. There isn’t a large diversity of opinion yet; growth would be good - the real issue is when you have actually saturated a market, the only way to grow is through increasingly shitty things (see: reddit). Lemmy won’t have those same problems because the commercial model is so different (non-existent).

        • SpookyUnderwear@eviltoast.orgEnglish
          31·
          10 months ago

          Agreed. The person you’re responding to thinks it’s good because most people are aligned with his/her opinions. It’s currently nothing more than a large echo chamber. A fresh injection of users will do Lemmy well for diversity of thought.

      • kopper [they/them]@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        21·
        11 months ago

        I think fedibird is a hard fork, so I guess it makes sense to count it separately compared to a soft fork like glitch or chuckya

        I’m more surprised why there aren’t any misskey instances on the list. if fedibird is on there misskey should certainly be there

        • Kierunkowy74@kbin.social
          6·
          11 months ago

          Some Misskey instances do not report their MAU numbers. Misskey total MAU is undercounted because of this, but, looking at Misskey instance stats I suppose, that it’s 20 000 at most.
          All Misskey forks (Firefish, Iceshrimp, Cherrypick, Foundkey, Meisskey, Sharkey), that are listed by FediDB make another 10 000 MAU.

    • rockSlayer@lemmy.worldEnglish
      5·
      11 months ago

      Yea, that’s the only one I don’t recognize. My first thought was some rightwing shithole like yddrasil, but I’m pretty sure that’s not their logo

  • SorteKanin@feddit.dkEnglish
    394·
    11 months ago

    More users is nice, but the real metric should be the quality of the content and discussions. And for me that’s the real winner with Lemmy.

    Quality over quantity.

    • nicetriangle@kbin.social
      19·
      11 months ago

      I just hope the platform will expand into more niche content over time. The big topics seem to be news, politics, and some specific tech subjects. Would love to see arts/crafts/hobby related stuff take hold here as well.

      That said, I do think a lot of the discussion happening here is pretty high quality and the place does seem to be improving over time. Time will tell. Hopefully more people wake up to the fact that reddit is not gonna hold up on the long term. I expect them to go IPO crazy this coming year and I don’t think a lot of the core users are going to like it.

    • PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S [he/him]@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
      17·
      11 months ago

      Okay but how do we quantitatively and unambiguously devise a metric for quality? More importantly, how do we come up with a satisfactory approximation to that metric? I’m open to ideas.

      • twilightwolf90@lemmy.worldEnglish
        61·
        11 months ago

        How about a ratio of post upvotes to avg upvotes per post in a community? At least upvotes somewhat correlate with post quality.

        • PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S [he/him]@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
          5·
          11 months ago

          I like this, but I think that upvotes correspond to things people enjoy, which may or may not be of high quality. I.e., shitposting subs would probably be rated “high quality” when, like… it’s literally the point to post shitty content.

          Also, as stated, that means we have to sum over the entire time history of the community. We would probably want to limit the time history of what is summed over, subject to a maximum for subs with high post counts (like the shitposting subs.

          IMO it’s a great suggestion, but I think it needs to be part of a weighted combination of factors.

        • brbposting@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          4·
          11 months ago

          Character count and thread depth (number of replies deep threads go) are interesting, while imperfect.

          A language model could rate discussion quality.

          User surveys…

          Hard to think of anything perfect.

      • rockSlayer@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        11 months ago

        Personally, the only reason to come up with that kind of metric is to justify “profitability”. Lemmy is completely and entirely devoid of the need of profit, so imo it hasn’t, doesn’t and won’t matter

    • Nix@merv.newsEnglish
      14·
      11 months ago

      Quantity helps the quality in some important aspects though. For example we don’t have an equivalent to r/LegalAdvice or r/AskDocs because there isn’t large enough amount of people that are doctors/lawyers using Lemmy

    • shotgun_crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
      7·
      11 months ago

      Quality is subjective, you can’t really measure it. Actual numerical stats like the ones from the post are more useful imo

    • Nima@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6·
      11 months ago

      it’s why I’ve stayed since the initial huge migration from reddit. I find myself caring more about interacting with other commenters.

      I never did that on reddit because comment sections just kinda felt like battlefields or playgrounds rather than discussions.

      • greencactus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        11 months ago

        Yes! I fully agree. And it feels just much more… Enjoyable. Because if a post only has 10 instead of 1000 comments, I’ll actually read them and react. And gosh, the few discussions I had on Lemmy were very nice and I actually learnt something new.

    • NarendraCzar@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      20·
      11 months ago

      A powerful photo sharing platform without the shity parts of instagram. Just the opposite of doomscrolling prevalent there

  • froggers@lemmy.worldEnglish
    19·
    11 months ago

    Could someone explain how the 2 million users are calculated for Lemmy?

    I don’t know if fedidb.org is up to date but there, the total number of users is at 352625.

    EDIT: Had to look it up since I wasn’t sure, but I recalled that the 0.19 update changed how MAUs are being counted. Now it includes voters as well.

    Previously, site and community activity counts were only based on people who commented, or posted. Those counts now include anyone who voted on a comment or post as well. Thanks to @Ategon for this change.
    • TeaHands@lemmy.worldEnglish
      16·
      11 months ago

      Yep you’d expect it to climb significantly once .world upgrades. Basically this update messes with the baseline stat a lot so no reason to celebrate, but also no reason to really be fussed either way as long as we’ve got plenty people here to talk to 👍

      • QuarterSwede@lemmy.worldEnglish
        10·
        11 months ago

        It’ll definitely shoot up. I’m a world user and vote the majority of the posts I come across. I don’t do a lot of post submission, but do comment as much as I can contribute. I’m sure I’m not alone.

    • Ategon@programming.devEnglish
      6·
      11 months ago

      the 2 million here includes the account bots that mass target open signup instances. (if an instance has no restrictions on signing up then they tend to make 8k accounts or something on it). fedidb detects that and excludes it

      • Dankry@lemmy.worldEnglish
        33·
        11 months ago

        Yep, Alien.top has over one million accounts alone and they’re all crossposting Reddit spam bot accounts.

        More instances need to defederate from that spam instance. Because no matter how many people explain why the project isn’t actually helpful nor does it add real value to Lemmy the person behind it is utterly convinced he’s the smartest person in the fediverse and we all just need to learn to love his spam.

        • rglullis@communick.newsEnglish
          33·
          11 months ago

          The bots have been disabled for over a month now. lemmy.world is been long defederated with it (which means that you don’t see it) yet you continue to think this is a problem…

          • Dankry@lemmy.worldEnglish
            32·
            11 months ago

            lemmy.world is been long defederated with it (which means that you don’t see it) yet you continue to think this is a problem…

            I’m on a backup account because instances running 0.19.1 aren’t federating properly so my main isn’t able to post. Not that it’s any of your business in the first place. Now take your bot spam instance, and your vote manipulating alts, and get lost.

            • rglullis@communick.news
              31·
              10 months ago

              vote manipulating alts

              The nice thing about open systems is that votes are public. Go check out who is voting down your comments before making baseless accusations, please. Or don’t and continue grasping at whatever straws you can find to justify your hate.

  • JackLSauce@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    10 months ago

    Forgive my ignorance (actually, no, bitterly hold a grudge against it but answer the question through your repressed seething anger) but why are there 2 Mastodon logos?

      • 𝕯𝖎𝖕𝖘𝖍𝖎𝖙@lemmy.worldEnglish
        14·
        11 months ago

        this thread is about instances fighting to be #1 isn’t it? y’all know that’s why MAU and metrics are tracked and reported like this right? You do realize that any site which has your email has maybe about $0.5-$1 added to their valuation for each active user, right? this helps companies get advertisers. Even if a product is crap, the business can say “sure but we can contact 1mil users at their email addresses” and I assure you, that counts for a lot.

        • Sanyanov@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          11 months ago

          In case you’re not joking, this thread is about Fediverse software fighting to be #1. First is Mastodon (all known instances of it), second is Lemmy (all known instances of it), etc. etc.

          • 𝕯𝖎𝖕𝖘𝖍𝖎𝖙@lemmy.worldEnglish
            15·
            11 months ago

            The software isn’t doing the fight. I doubt the developers of the software are doing the fight. The fight seems weird and antithetical to the fediverse to begin with. It’s not a fight, it’s a party! https://fediverse.party

            ActivityPub was made for sharing and interoperability.

            Information wants to be free.

            Capitalism wants domination. Capitalism and bottoms, of course. switches too. i digress,

            • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.netEnglish
              1·
              10 months ago

              No one is actually fighting, its just showing the average monthly users of each platform from most to least users.

              • 𝕯𝖎𝖕𝖘𝖍𝖎𝖙@lemmy.worldEnglish
                12·
                10 months ago

                It’s not fighting, it’s comparison, to see which one is “better”. Not a fight, but a competition. Just like how boxing matches are competitions, not fights.

                • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.netEnglish
                  1·
                  10 months ago

                  Do Lemmy and Mastodon really compete with each other when they’re attempting to cater to different needs? They are all part of the greater Fediverse, showing the growth of the overall community.

      • 𝕯𝖎𝖕𝖘𝖍𝖎𝖙@lemmy.worldEnglish
        24·
        11 months ago

        Only the biggest. as I understand all other instances shut down when the biggest instance wins.

        I have accounts on other instances and am considering starting my own. that’s my point - lemmy doesn’t need big instances because federation makes all instances part of the same but decentralized.

        Seriously folks, don’t jump on the take over the internet bandwagon just yet.

      • 𝕯𝖎𝖕𝖘𝖍𝖎𝖙@lemmy.worldEnglish
        14·
        11 months ago

        So long as we don’t view it as a race to the top. having one instance that’s more popular than the others just means added pressure for that instance to perform. and if it doesn’t perform? lemmy loses users who may not want to migrate to another instance.

        first day on the internet?