I recently made an account on Beehaw because I’ve been having pleasant interactions with the instance from my lemm.ee account. Some good threads, seemed like a progressive space. So I went back to the philosophy documents and read them again, liked most of what I saw (again) and signed up for an account today. Decided to break in my new account by browsing the top posts of the last month. Several of them were threads I recognised and had commented in, and felt like revisiting. Except my comments weren’t there. When I got to a comment I very specifically remember replying to (someone asked what’s up with HBomber and James Somerton), and couldn’t find my comment, I decided to check the modlog.
I’m banned. I’ve been talking into an empty void for 4 months. I was banned for being in bad faith. And one of my comments was removed by an admin, because I told people to assume good faith and apparently that’s not nice.
This doesn’t align at all with the documents I’ve been reading today. The ones about assuming good faith, and about giving people chances to clarify, and about how banning is a last resort only for obvious trolls. When I came to this community 4 months ago to make a post about fediverse drama, I wasn’t interested in active participation in the community, and I didn’t make that post with that in mind. I understand how that might not fit the desires of the community here. But I didn’t make that post in bad faith. I, and whoever wrote those pages on the philosophy of Beehaw, wanted the same thing back then. To create a corner of the internet free of hate speech and full of kindness. Now? I’m jaded and beaten. I don’t want to create a kind community anymore, I want to find one. I’ve given up on that ambition. So that’s why I reread the updated documents with hope. Why I created an account. And why I want to know whether beehaw.org is actually the website I read about in those documents. Because those modlogs say the opposite of what those documents said. If I don’t fit in here, if the ideals I thought I saw aren’t present, I’d like to find out quickly.
Should I still hope?
Damn you didn’t even make this stuff up! I hope you realize that in the best interpretation this “Magick” is just some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and mindfulness in disguise. Worst case it’s just another cult thing trying to push dogmas onto you. Stay safe and let real certified therapists help you if you feel the need for it, not this stuff.
Edit - apparently there is more to this Magick than I initially thought. If it works for people then of course that’s a good thing. I’ve been in therapy for a long time myself and have also maybe seen to many ways that self help stuff exploited people who were in dire need of actual professional help. My issues are not related to gender so apparently this is clearly a gap in my knowledge. I hope that the helpful concepts and techniques from Magick find their way to professional health care and I’m glad it exist for the people who need it.
This has really nothing to do with the thread at all, but Psychonaut Field Manual is actually a pretty well known text with some fairly well established practices in it. That strain of occultism isn’t particularly new and it’s not a cult, nor is it mutually exclusive with therapy. It’s just another flavor of normal benign human stuff. Ok carry on.
I get that you’re trying to look out for OP but you probably shouldn’t liken non Western spiritual processes to ‘another cult thing’ in case there are people for whom magic is an important part of their life.
I’ve read the other comments and edited mine. I clearly don’t know enough on the subject to have an informed enough opinion, and what works for people works.
I do feel that there is a difference between the generic idea of occult practicing and spirituality and the specific one OP is advocating for.
My scepticism was triggered by the website through which I read OPs field manual. It immediately showed me multiple links to a “Free guided meditation” for which they wanted personal information, their “Magick.Me” online school for chaos magick which costs $81.07/month or $843.37/year, and a link to 8 celebrities who practice chaos magick as proof of it’s validity, which is a tactic used by scientology.
https://ultraculture.org/blog/2015/11/13/psychonaut-field-manual/
This has to be a joke right? For people who magic is an important part of their life? Really?
a religious practice being unfamiliar and a bit strange to you is fine, but what you consider a weird religious practice is almost completely arbitrary–and something just being a weird religious practice to you isn’t good grounds to call it “another cult thing”, which is what’s being objected to up-thread.
as an aside: if we’re being intellectually honest “practicing magick” or believing in its existence is really no weirder than adhering to Catholic transubstantiation–the former is just niche while the latter is adhered to indirectly by a billion people.
Religion is by definition “another cult thing”
Of course. They’re the same thing, total nonsense
i don’t care if you think religion is bad or cringe or whatever–i am not religious–but if you want to continue being on this instance you cannot use this as a justification to be weird about other people’s sincere spiritual beliefs. demanding they justify themselves to you is stupid, in the same way it would be stupid of me to harangue you about why you’re not religious and what a weirdo you are for being that way.
If they don’t want to justify it that’s fine, but they’re making claims that their magic is better than psychology, which is dangerous. And it’s totally valid to ask for evidence for claims that their magic is real
this is literally the sort of haranguing i just described–pretty much all religious belief is predicated on a non-resolvable, non-falsifiable metaphysical debate that is supremely uninteresting to all participants and even less interesting to read and moderate because in this lifetime it is non-resolvable and non-falsifiable. put simply: you will never convince a sincere and devout religious person that their worldview is wrong by asking them to source where that worldview comes from–and if their worldview harms nobody, bluntly, who cares if their worldview is wrong anyways? it’s not your problem. i don’t know why i would care that someone else is wrong about something that doesn’t impact me.
Hey i think you can not believe in something, and also think the person with the belief is acting wrongly or has bad or irresponsible takes about their belief, without using the validity of that belief itself as a basis for discrediting or putting down the person in a disagreement. Does that make sense? I think you can be totally free to find someone annoying or disagree with their ideas, and even privately think something is silly, without using someone’s spiritual or religious belief as the thing that is the problem you have with them. Demanding evidence or proof of someone’s religion or asking someone to justify what they believe spiritually or explain to your satisfaction why it’s not evil/dangerous/bad/fake is almost always trolling and can verge on bullying. But you can disagree with someone without doing that. It’s easy.
Nope, not a joke. Magic is important to me because it’s how I stay connected to my hivemind. I’m grateful to @gaywallet for looking out for us religious people
I’ve been in CBT for over a year. While it helped me with my PTSD a little, it was painfully impotent most of the time. Largely, it just left me to my own devices, scared and confused. I haven’t used magick for PTSD, I’ve used it for gender, and unlike CBT it actually worked. I’m a scientist, so I believe in experimentation and results. The results say magick is more powerful than therapy. It’s also more risky, but I’m willing to live with that.
Also Bluefluke’s guide has a whole section about how dogma is bad
As a scientist, could you point me to some research papers or studies showing that Magick is more powerful than therapy? Thanks 👍
Edit - apparently there is more to this Magick than I initially thought. If it works for people then of course that’s a good thing. I’ve been in therapy for a long time myself and have also maybe seen to many ways that self help stuff exploited people who were in dire need of actual professional help. My issues are not related to gender so apparently this is clearly a gap in my knowledge. I hope that the helpful concepts and techniques from Magick find their way to professional health care and I’m glad it exist for the people who need it.
Yeah to be honest, you really are being dismissive and kinda rude. Occult practices do tend to fall under “sincerely held beliefs”, so please don’t make light of them so passively…particularly when it clearly is working for a person.
The Psychonaut Field Manual pg 27. [in the box in the bottom]
I love science and study it too, but like…I also acknowledge and love the occult arts and study them as well. Having that attitude has saved my bacon more than you might think.
If that’s what you think it is, why then do you sneer upon it because some charlatans exist? If it’s effective for this person, that should be a data point that should excite and fascinate you…anecdotal or not.
Should we ridicule science because there’s no shortage of charlatans who exist who try to take advantage of it? I hope not…that’s how we ended up with anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers.
A comparison would be impossible, because there are no standard practices for gender affirmation psychological therapy. Magick wins by virtue of the fact that therapy is not participating. This is like asking whether there’s any research papers demonstrating that an eagle can fly faster than a dog. Dogs can’t fly. You don’t need to be told that eagles fly better than dogs, it’s obvious. Likewise, there is no scientific merit in conducting an investigation on whether gender affirmation magick (which exists) is better than gender affirmation psychotherapy (which doesn’t exist).
So because one thing doesn’t exist, it means all possible other things are valid and don’t need any evidence?
knokelmaat asked if gender magick is more powerful than gender therapy. We’re not asking whether gender magick is valid, that’s already been conclusively demonstrated. We’re asking which is more powerful. The clear answer is: the one that exists.
That’s exactly the evidence that they were asking for. So I’m sure you have no problem sharing it
based on your reply upthread i am immediately putting a stop to this because i absolutely do not think you are asking this in any sort of good faith.
Asking for evidence for something that’s been “conclusively demonstrated” is in bad faith?
Arguing that magic is better than psychology and then being upset at being questioned is what’s bad faith