xXthrowawayXx [none/use name]

Oh so you’re defending specifically the nazis fighting Russia.

Interesting stance for a German to take. 🤔

You can, as always, stop defending Nazis.

Oh so if they’re good Nazis it’s okay!

I see now why you’re defending them, you think it’s okay!

Stop defending Nazis!

Oh it’s only 1/5 Nazis! In that case they get to use the wolfsangel but they can’t use the totenkopf until they hit 1/8.

This is absurd. They were Nazis, they used a symbol to appeal to Nazis. The name became synonymous with Nazis. Now the claim is they’re only 1/5 Nazis but it’s okay to use the same symbol and name.

At this point what would convince you? If their marches included the Bellamy salute? If they brought the black sun back?

You’re either so naive you can’t recognize the “new look, same great taste” strategy or you’re defending Nazis. I’ve been assuming the latter because the former is both sad and frightening.

So you trust the ukranian state not to be fascist so much that you’ll take their word that there aren’t any Nazis over their actions of leaving the dogwhistle symbol and very well known name.

That’s going way beyond gullible, but if you’re willing to look past the ukranian states’ past actions and take it at its word who am I to judge? I mean, as a German you definitely have plenty of success and skill in recognizing Nazis and keeping them out of power: just look at nato and the frg of olde and afd etc today! Clearly Germans can recognize Nazis and effectively keep them out of power! What was I thinking suggesting that a German was being pedantic and providing a smokescreen for Nazis? There’s no systemic historical precedent for that!

Stop defending Nazis.

You hear that everybody? The Nazi regiment can keep using their hate symbol! Yeah, because they denazified. How can we tell they denazified? They said so. Those are the rules. Who made the rules? The Germans, why? No we can’t trust the ADL. Who says? A German. No, they’re not on one of the .de instances, why?

I’m just gonna get it out of the way up front: equating oak leaves and a symbol with, once again, its own ADL entry and many pictures of Nazis using it in tattoos, emblems and patches is absurd and can only be interpreted as providing cover and defense for nazis. Stop defending nazis.

I do have reason to believe they’re just throwing a new coat of paint on the kubelwagon: they’re at war and they want command and control of the Nazi regiment!

You said it yourself, they didn’t do the right thing because they want the Nazis fighting for them.

They didn’t denazify anything and we can both look and see by the symbols and name they used!

I never agreed that the wolfsangel isn’t a Nazi symbol,I conceded that in some very rare circumstances it isn’t used that way and followed it immediately with the qualification that we aren’t talking about those circumstances.

The circumstances we are talking about are pretty much the textbook example of it being used as a Nazi dogwhistle. You acknowledged this. This isn’t one of the times where you can claim it’s like finding the wolfsangel in the crest of an old forester family. Simply bringing that up in this context is literally defending Nazis and I’d like you to stop doing that.

If a Nazi organization uses a symbol (any symbol) as a Nazi dogwhistle, and the government comes in, claims to have cleaned house but keeps the name and that symbol, do you not think that raises some red flags? Does it not make you consider the distinct possibility that they’re not doing a thorough job and just slapping a new coat of paint on the kubelwagon?

I’m not gonna pat the ukranian government on the back for removing the black sun, I’m gonna recognize the fact that they did that instead of completely removing all iconography associated with the Nazi regiment, dissolving it, investigating all people involved thoroughly and moving the men and material into other units or forming a new regiment with strict oversight and discipline and a command structure that’s entirely comprised of army personnel.

Because that’s how you “denazify” without incarcerating or killing the Nazis. Really, it’s how you integrate units that aren’t compatible with your force into yourself. The fact that the ukranian government thought it was enough to change the logo but keep the name and the wolfsangel communicates to anyone watching that they don’t see the Nazi regiment as incompatible with themselves, and they just want people in it to keep their heads down.

If you can stop defending Nazis for a second we can have a laugh at how the 67ths patch shows the profile of consumer grade donated ar-15 rifles with magpul flip up sights and everything. At least the volunteer corps is the iconography of irregulars (the rifles that were already around). When people try to blame everything on nato it’s important to remember that there are whole units whose existence is predicated on corporate sponsorship. Shits fucking grim.

We aren’t talking about the black sun.

We’re talking about how you will accept nazis using known hate symbol the wolfsangel when they change the font and rotate it 90 degrees.

Well, you’re definitely German.

Did you hear that guys? It’s cool, the Nazi militia is totally fine now because they changed the font of their wolfsangel and rotated it 90 degrees. Yeah, that makes them not Nazis. I know! It sounds weird but those are the rules, you can be an out Nazi organization but if you switch to comic sans and throw a little word art action in the mix you’re good.

okay, here’s a solid argument: you can’t display their banner in your home country because it’s a nazi symbol.

you just tried to equate using a symbol with its own ADL page in a right wing nationalist millitia with eating bread.

do you see the absurdity of your position here?

I never called anyone disagreeing with me a Nazi. It’s worth noting though that a moderator of this very website called you a Nazi as their reason for removing your post equating the swastika and the unexpounded upon Germanic culture the Nazis appropriated.

Azov marches under a Nazi banner. We both know it’s a Nazi banner because we agreed it was chosen to dogwhistle to nazis. If someone marches under a Nazi banner, would you say they’re a Nazi? If not, what if they march under a Nazi banner for a state that banned all communist parties?

Azov is nazis. Stop defending nazis.

you agreed that it was chosen to appeal to nazis. it’s a nazi banner.

if you march under a nazi banner youre a nazi.

this isn’t tough stuff. stop defending nazis.

Ah yes, why don’t I ask people teaming under a Nazi banner what they think?

Because their Nazi banner tells me what they think! If they didn’t think that way they’d choose another banner!

Stop defending Nazis.

If the new management doesn’t consider at the very least the symbol chosen to appeal to Nazis tarnished enough to change when they take control of the Nazi militia then the new management are Nazis too.

If it was chosen to appeal to Nazis then by not changing it they’re choosing to continue appealing to Nazis!

Okay, hold on!

The original azov wolfsangel insignia was a Nazi dogwhistle (you agreed with this!), but a little churn and a change of management and the exact same name and insignia are somehow fine?

How does that work?

Okay, two different theys, the most recent being the ukranian government, whose decision to keep the name and logo you just can’t fathom.

Let me give a little insight into their reasoning: they want to keep the Nazi regiment.

If you bought a Nazi bar that had to close down because of all the Nazis and you wanted to reopen it as a bar, but without all the Nazis, would you keep the old name and leave the logo the same?

No, of course you wouldn’t. You’d change the name, clean house, completely renovate, change the menu, stop serving jagermiester and even take a strong anti fascist line.

Since the ukranian government didn’t do that it’s obvious they want to keep running the Nazi bar on the dl.

Those other regiments aren’t on the other side of the equation because there is no equation. We’re not talking about the whole of semiotics throughout the history of europe, we’re talking about a specific nationalist right wing militia that uses Nazi symbols and ideas.

They chose a symbol to dogwhistle to everyone that they’re Nazis. Now they say they’re not Nazis but they kept the symbol that they chose to low key tell everyone me they’re Nazis.

Do you know what that means? it means they’re still nazis

This isn’t hard to understand. Theres no nuance here. They use the nazi markings knowing they’re nazi markings. They’re Nazis.

My problem is that we’re not talking about this in a vacuum. We aren’t having a nice little hypothetical conversation about weather or not you can judge the town of burgweldel for having a wolfsangel on their town coat of arms.

We are talking about people joining a right wing nationalist militia using the wolfsangel. In the context of this conversation it is unambiguously a Nazi dogwhistle and indefensible, unless you want to defend Nazis. Do you want to defend Nazis?

oh no, not germanic cultutre appropriated by the nazis and wideley seen as dogwhistles! how will the world move on?

your’e absolutely right that the wolfsangel is like the number 88. maybe someone with it in a username or email was born or married that year. but when they’re joining a nationalist right wing militia the number 88 means they’re a nazi

we’re not talking about random people on the street with tee shirts that have wolfsangels on em (btw they’d be nazis too). we’re talking about people joining a famously right wing, nationalist militia in a country with a long history of nazism. they didn’t pick those symbols out because they just love interesting history!

when people choose symbols associated with nazis now they’re nazis. i’m sorry, that’s just reality.

Stop trying to rehabilitate the wolfsangel. If your town had it for three centuries then maybe that’s not nazi symbolism. If you join a nationalist right wing regiment and get it tattooed on yourself, that’s Nazi symbolism.

Think about it like the swastika. If someone is choosing it now, in Europe, in a right wing military organization, they’re nazis, not fans of Indian symbols and culture. Do you know how I can tell?