Being opposed to genocide supporters is not a “talking point” it’s not a “trick”. Genocide is simply against the very core of my belief about how we’re meant to treat other human beings.
So when a Democrat supports genocide, I want them out of the party and I see those who choose to ignore that candidates genocidal views as complicit themselves as well since they are responsible for putting that person into as position of power despite knowing the ugly truth. Hopefully that’s clear enough for you to allow yourself to understand. It’s very odd to have to spell it out like this for you though.
Harris is not a zionist afaik.
Harris does not appear to be ideological like Biden, that is true and a promising sign, but that’s not really related to the point I’m making – while zionists like Biden and his supporters do obviously help keep the slaughter going, one doesn’t necessarily have to be a committed zionist to help fuel the genocide. One could choose to do it for any number of reasons (ex. cowardice, political convenience etc.), we will see if Harris’ actions match up with her rhetoric. She doesn’t get an automatic pass on being a moral human being, this isn’t a cult of personality like the GOP.
No one said it was unanimous. It was still hundreds of sitting members of congress, both democrats and republicans.
And people do try to condemn the specific members of our government who support the genocide, like Joe Biden. And you know what happens? People like you pop-up and defend them and deflect.
You literally just spent the entirety of yesterday trying to get me to shut up about condemning genocide support and talking about holding genocide supporters politically accountable.
Yes, but Republicans are given. Half of Democrats also joined in, that’s the problem. The Democratic party needs to be in opposition to zionism like it’s meant to be opposed to every other form of fascism.
I didn’t equate voting dem as genocide support. If you vote for a zionist though, that is active support of genocide. In that situation you’re signaling to the party that it’s acceptable to have genocide supporters in the party, as long as the other option is “worse”.
That’s a calculation you’re free to weigh for yourself, but it is still genocide support. Same way voting for an openly racist politician is in support of racism.
Calling a genocide what it is isn’t sensationalist, regardless of whether or not you think there would be political blowback for her to state that plainly.
You’re couching an implication that describing it as a genocide is an exaggeration in pragmatic language.
Yeah, the Knesset has signaled in no uncertain terms that they will never support a two state solution.
A two-state solution is something that sounds good to people who don’t understand the history and the geography, but the reality is that Israel will always be looking to take over the remainder of Gaza and the Westbank. The already have to a huge extent, I don’t think people realize just how much Palestine has been made into swiss cheese. You can’t make a state out of that.
It’s the apartheid state that needs to end, Israel cannot remain an ethno-state if there’s ever going to be an end to all this. Theres nowhere else on earth that we’d be arguing that it needs to be ethnically “pure”. Palestinians have been in that region as long as anyone, they need to be equal citizens with equal rights.
Its not a pipe dream, the world pressured South Africa to end apartheid, they can do it with Israel if world leaders actually show some backbone.
I feel that, but to be fair she’s not in a position to do much more than promise at the moment.
I think it’s an encouraging sign that she’s not trying to duck the issue, the way she could. That’s not a guaruntee she’ll take real action, but if she’s distancing herself from Biden on this even before she gets the nomination it’s a good sign.
I think it’s easy to forget just how extreme Biden is on this issue. Harris is your average democrat, but she’s still not ideological like Biden is, most aren’t. Biden went so far as to go around Obama to make promises to Israel when he was VP, I don’t see Harris having that kind of unquestioning desperation to help the right-wing Israeli government.
Sure, fuck hexbear…but congress literally did give a standing ovation to a mass murderer, there is no getting around that reality. That’s not me, it was literally on NPR. Biden is a staunch supporter of mass murder who has blood on his hands.
Hexbear being full of tankies doesn’t make it ok to support genocide.
Genocide is not a “single issue”. It’s every issue. No, I will not “come on” and accept it as part of the party platform.
If Dems can’t stop themselves supporting an active genocide they’re politically and morally useless.
So the fact that Uncommitted votes across multiple swing states added up to more than the margins he won by in those states in 2020 had no influence.
I think you know that’s not true. His debate performance was the final straw but wouldn’t have been enough on its own. The dems were calculating (wrongly, I think) that they could ignore the anti-genocide demographic as long as they made up for it with right-wing independents. The debate happened and the combination of losing both groups of voters made it impossible to ignore reality, even for the neoliberal establishment.
Biden being ousted was a referendum by voters on his support for the genocide as much as it was about age.
I’m protesting the slaughter of Palestinians and saying it’s unacceptable and that I’ll never vote for anyone who is pro-genocide. You’re arguing for me to accept it as inevitable that democrats continue supporting genocide. And somehow you think that translates into me holding your pro-genocide position. It’s nonsensical.
You’re desperate for other people to accept your justification for supporting what’s going on in Gaza, you can’t face how sick that is. You want to believe you’re a moral person, but you’re literally the cowardly towns folk who sees the plumes of smoke from the camps over your village and tells everyone who mentions it to shut up because “it could be worse.”
No, what you said was that it doesn’t matter if Palestinians are being genocided only by Israel, or simultaneously by Israel and The USA.
That’s what you want me to be saying, not what I’m saying.
The latter results in significantly more civilian deaths in Palestine.
This statement keeps being repeated, but it’s simply baseless. Nothing is holding Israel back, they are slaughtering and starving just as many people as they want, right now. And you are arguing for people to accept that.
You’re not understanding what I was saying (or you’re continuing to try to intentionally misrepresent what I was saying).
Using your analogy, you’re the one saying 6 million deaths is acceptable as long as it doesn’t get to six million and one. You’re trying to simultaneously say we need to accept mass slaughter to avoid mass slaughter, it’s nonsense.
The “six million deaths” are happening in Gaza right now. They are actually suffering and dying, but you’re telling us we should accept that since you’re afraid of not being able to kick the political can down the road and kerp pretending everything can be fine.
It doesn’t matter, I can’t make you understand why rewarding the Democrats for genocidal fascist policy is a losing strategy when they’re suppose to be the alternative to genocidal fascists. You either let yourself understand it or you don’t.
Uh huh, and how realistic do you actually think that is? Israel is going to allow Trump to drop a nuclear bomb on their border…
The fact that the retort is “It could be worse, they could drop a literal nuke on Gaza” should be an indicator that what you’re arguing as an acceptable alternative is indefensibly extreme.
Palestinians, apparently, yes. That’s the whole problem.
You want me to believe it’s ok to off-shore the consequences of our political failings, I just don’t accept that as a viable way towards changing the problem of zionism in the Democratic party.
You want to believe that the IDF is held back by lack of personnel, but they’re not. They are not being held back from anything they want to do. Putting US soldiers in Gaza does not add to their capacity to continue the genocide exactly as they wish.
Zionists keep trying to convince everyone that Trump would be worse on this, which is simply a way of refusing to accept the reality of just how bad it really is.
The election system is first passed the post, that doesn’t mean that’s where our political agency and influence ends – we just proved that with Biden stepping down. We created a third option.
A large enough number of people said “We will not vote for a zionist” and it had a real world effect on the behavior of the party. That never would’ve happened if people just accepted that Biden was running again and there was nothing we could do.
Damn near everyone is anti-genoocide
This is not true. There are many Israel supporters, even here on this thread.
If you disagree, tell me how you think any other vote will help Israel.
I’ll assume this was a freudian slip and you meant help Gaza.
The only hope Gaza has in regards to the US is if we actually work to hold our own politicians to account. Republicans are a write-off, but Democrats are suppose to be the more moral party that has a baseline on human rights.
That notion needs to be enforced by voters, Democrats need to be held to at least the most basic of standards.
When we vote for an out and proud genocide supporter we move the Democrats further from reform that would help Gaza. If we vote for a pro-genocide dem it’s the exact same to the people in Gaza as us voting for a Republican, and it has the added effect of signaling to the party that voters will accept genocide support from Democrats.
It should be unacceptable.
In the worst case scenarios, personally I would rather say, “I voted for Kamala hoping she would improve the situation in Israel which didn’t happen” instead of, “I voted third party / didn’t vote at all, and Trump made it worse in Israel”. At least in one situation, there’s a chance.
And if she signals support for Netanyahu during the visit, I would rather say that I voted against a future of continued genocide support for the Democratic party.
Being opposed to genocide supporters is not a “talking point” it’s not a “trick”. Genocide is simply against the very core of my belief about how we’re meant to treat other human beings.
So when a Democrat supports genocide, I want them out of the party and I see those who choose to ignore that candidates genocidal views as complicit themselves as well since they are responsible for putting that person into as position of power despite knowing the ugly truth. Hopefully that’s clear enough for you to allow yourself to understand. It’s very odd to have to spell it out like this for you though.
Harris does not appear to be ideological like Biden, that is true and a promising sign, but that’s not really related to the point I’m making – while zionists like Biden and his supporters do obviously help keep the slaughter going, one doesn’t necessarily have to be a committed zionist to help fuel the genocide. One could choose to do it for any number of reasons (ex. cowardice, political convenience etc.), we will see if Harris’ actions match up with her rhetoric. She doesn’t get an automatic pass on being a moral human being, this isn’t a cult of personality like the GOP.