there’s one argument here: freedom over your own body.

Animals should have freedom over their bodies too. It’s hypocritical to be pro-choice, but then force cows to have arms shoved up their anus to be artificially inseminated for dairy products by buying their secretions. It’s hypocritical to think you deserve total control over an animal’s body for taste pleasure. Be vegan.

There are 80 billion land animals killed for trivial, unnecessary reasons every year. Stop breastfeeding off of another species in adulthood and paying for chicks to be thrown in blenders. That’s fucking weird.

Wouldn’t a being that felt pain or any other feeling automatically know they exist?

Humans are animals. Why doesn’t it make sense to protect the rights of beings that can feel and know they exist over biological material that can’t feel or know it exists?

I saw this German documentary about the egg industry.

They ship the males out of country where they are raised in sheds, then sold to Africa.

I think the best solution is to not buy eggs. A good replacement is mung bean flour. It has similar nutrition and flavor, can be obtained cheaply, and spares chickens from being exploited by humans.

The vast majority of aborted fetuses are not sentient. Sentience is the ability to know oneself exists through feeling. Yet in the US, there are laws protecting insensate biological material but not sentient male chicks ground up alive in the egg industry. I see the moral value of a day old chick as far more than a 14 week fetus since the male chick has sentience and can feel pain while a 14 week old fetus cannot.

Ideally, these male chicks could be taken to an animal sanctuaries. With the scale of the industry and the rarity of farmed animal sanctuaries, it wouldn’t be possible for all of them. For the ones that can be rescued, life on a sanctuary is much better than in the wild or on a farm in a dark shed.

Say there was a mentally disabled human who did not recognize themselves in a mirror. Would it be ethical to jam metal pipes down their throats and force feed them until their livers become diseased? Or cut their throats and tear their livers out? If not, why is it OK to do this to ducks and geese?

Farmed animals are slaves to humans

Black people were once considered animals by slave owners and were given no rights. People who sold slaves were just following the laws of supply and demand too. The market isn’t a great arbiter of morality, there’s plenty of horrible things people will pay for, including the diseased livers of tortured ducks and geese. Doesn’t make the product ethical just because someone will pay for it.

It’s pronounced cash. It’s a dumb name for the restaurant. It’s a restaurant in Little Rock, Ark. Overpriced, animal abusing establishment.

It’s a false dichotomy, leave them on farms or leave the in the wilderness to die. Sanctuaries treat cows with dignity instead of objects for profit.

There will be more cows existing at any one point in time if more people don’t go vegan because of the population increase. It would take less resources to let the cows alive now live out their natural lives and there not be any cows anymore in 20 years than to continue sexually abusing them, forcing them to reproduce, then killing 30 million of them a year in the US alone. There’s 91 million cows in the US right now, it would take less resources to let them live out there lives and there be no cows in 20 years than if there are over 91 million cows in 20 years. The population will decrease from 91 million down to around 0 in 25 years whereas if people keep eating cows, there will be over 91 million cows consuming resources in 25 years.

This utopia scenario is a fantasy, but it demonstrates an important fact that if we breed less cows, less resources will be used and there will be less of a toll on ecosystems. The ways less cows will exist is if humans stop reproducing as much and/or go vegan. The numbers will decrease gradually the more that people go vegan.

If this were not the case and the numbers were natural, the planet would be consumed by cows in a short number of years.

The reason there are so many cows is because people are breeding them into existence. There are far more cows now than there would be if people were not eating them. I’d rather be extinct than be sexually abused by humans, have my children killed at a fraction of their lifespan, and live in filth like most cows do.

Instead of breeding more animals, we should let the ones alive now live out their natural lifespans and stop breeding them. But as long as people keep buying animal products, breeders will keep breeding the animals.

I agree 100% with you killing aquatic life is bad for ecosystems and the animals themselves.

Saying the cows are born to die is arbitrary. There are cultures that consume dogs and cats for food, the same could be said about them.

If a serial killer was impregnating human women and stealing their babies to eat them, the same could be said about the babies the serial killer was eating. That they were just born to die.

Vegans don’t consume any land or marine animals. Veganism is a philosophy concerned with avoiding harm to animals as far as possible and practicable.

It’s not a philosophy of complete non-harm since that isn’t attainable for most people with the social obligations they have.

Same was said about whites against abolishing slavery.

Cows can live up to 20 years but the average age at slaughter for cows killed for their flesh is about 1.5 years.

Can I get her #?

I think your first point is an appeal to futility argument. It’s also a good reason to be vegan as crop production to feed animals requires more labor, more injuries. In fact, slaughterhouses are some of the most dangerous places to work. Back to the victims though, there’s no respectful way to kill someone who does not want to die - be it a deer or a human. It was part of white culture to wipe out indigenous people and own slaves and there were many whites in the civil war who died trying to protect the institution of slavery which was a part of their culture. Oat milk is based, I encourage you to go vegan.

The dairy industry kills cows, the egg industry grinds up baby male chicks alive.

Do you understand that poem was written by a vegan who lived over a thousand years ago?

That refutes your claim veganism is a modern moral stance since it’s been practiced over a thousand years. There were practicing vegans in major world religions even before then.

I do know I’m a modern human. If you’re implying that because I’m a modern vegan, veganism is a modern moral philosophy, that’s like saying a Model T Ford is a modern vehicle if someone today drives one around.

There’s no greater privilege than thinking you’re so important as a human, a sentient beings whole existence is worth less than 15 minutes of your taste pleasure. That’s actual privilege, most vegan staples (lentils, tofu, chickpeas) are cheaper and have more protein than animal products.

I don’t have to win you over. Either you’ll understand not being vegan is abusive to animals or not. I don’t buy your gaslighting that you going vegan is dependent on you liking me or not.