RandomException

Yes, I’m comparing economic systems. Slavery is an economic system. While slavery allows you owning all aspects of a humans life, Capitalism and Wageslavery only allow you to own some aspects of a humans life (Mainly 8hrs lifetime/day on average).

Could you open this a bit more because I’m not sure I understand your perspective currently? From what I know, slavery by itself is absolutely not an economic system but it used to be a part of capitalistic system where black people were traded like pets and slaves had a market value where if they were doing their work better and had some education, they would cost more for the next owner just like some people would pay more money for a dog that has been specifically trained for assisting blind people for example. It’s a disgusting and revolting thing of past and anyone comparing current day work life to that must either have some undealt personal issues or a weird perspective to things that at least I don’t know of. At least it needs heavy clarification for others to understand the point.

In capitalism you are free to own pretty much anything you’d like as long as you can afford it. People can debate about wages but up to a certain point the amount one earns is dependent on the choices one makes during their lives. There is also some aspect of luck here where your family matters, your natural interests matter etc. but the capitalistic system itself is not the limiting factor here. Also, capitalism is not 100% USA but instead there are lots of countries in Europe (Nordics especially) where capitalism is very much there but government takes care of the weakest people and tries to offer all options in life to kids in poor families. Trading time for money is no different to living in the small village where you spend your days working for the community and maybe get enough time to sleep during the day. We actually have it quite well nowadays, and after working for a while, you could as well decide to not work for 8h/day but instead maybe 6h/day or maybe only three or four days a week instead of five. Most of the time it comes down to the choices you make during your lifespan. Not always of course, there are always people that just can’t get on their feet and that’s why we also need the government to help the weakest portion of people.

It doesn’t help telling a single mom raising a child on her own and living paycheck to paycheck, to just move.

I mean if there’s nothing there for the family in the place where they currently live, what else should they do? Shout into the void and hope that someone miraculously comes to offer them a roof on their head and food on the table? Nobody enjoys that situation, and moving into a different location where the mother gets a new (better) job will absolutely benefit the entire family. If, and only if, the mother could get a higher paying job in a different location which would raise the entire family’s life quality, they absolutely should move even if it would feel difficult at first. Some (capitalistic) countries even offer support for that (if they were unemployed at first).

This says more about you and your social life than anyone else’s. And you advocating on forcing this experiment of a lifestyle onto others.

Of course it does. I’ve done it, multiple times, and I can’t understand why someone would rather be stuck in a shitty situation instead of moving into a new location where they have opportunities to build a better life. It’s not a lifestyle, it’s a choice. One shouldn’t of course have to move every year but if they live in a tiny village without any jobs, it just makes sense for them to move into a city with lots of open jobs to get on with their life. You always have the option of moving back if you feel like it - most people just don’t do so because they see no future in the place they left behind.

China has been outperforming western countries on a variety of metrics. North Korea had more than 20% of their population decimated an forced into isolation. Cuba has higher life expectancy is way more progressive and the US, despite crippling embarings. There’s more than one interpretation, you know.

Sure, cherry pick some numbers here and there and even Iceland feels like a tropical island. China has made numbers out of thin air for a long time and it starts to show now that their real estate industry is in shambles. Thanks to their otherwise restrictive money system, most wealthy citizens there bought empty properties just to park their wealth somewhere, and now that the prices start to come down, it also starts to hit the people as well. Cuba vs. US, well, given the list, cherry picking is cherry picking.

It doesn’t matter where you work, as long as it’s privately owned you’re at the mercy of the firms owners. Be it big or be it small. Would you make the argument to a slave that one owner is better than the other based on the size? Or would you despise the entire economic system of slavery?

If you really want to compare working to a company you can freely choose and you can leave whenever you like, sure. In that case I would make the argument to a slave, that they absolutely should find a kind master who treats them more like a human being than all the other scumbag slavelords do. It’s just that the slaves were actual slaves, they didn’t have any freedom of choice unlike you and I have.

1. That’s really privileged to say. Moving is not affordable to everybody
2. Then there’s the social aspect. Not everyone is willing to leave their friends and family behind?

1. It depends. People from the poor countries are somehow moving without a dime. You are actually really privileged, if you already own so much crap that you think you need all that when you move somewhere. Realistically you only need yourself, your IDs and a one-way ticket to wherever you are going.
2. That’s a choice. It also tells more about your friends and family if they abandon you just for moving elsewhere nowadays when we are 24/7 connected to each other in multiple ways. New friends can also always be made in new locations - been there, done that. It is scary at first but loooots of people are doing exactly that all the time because otherwise they would have to work a shitty job for shitty wage and they would hate themselves and everyone else around them all the time for that.

No noone is saying that? Every society needs a method of procuring the means of life, which can only be done an economy? What I’ve been saying is that you’re forced to participate in capitalism, because the majority places where you can work are capitalist.

There are alternatives, it’s just that maybe you wouldn’t REALLY want to live in that alternative economy? China is a slight alternative, there is this fake capitalism going on and it’s not looking too great. North Korea is a 100% different country and you can see how well they are doing. Pretty much all socialistic countries in the world are in a bad shape and people are fleeing into the capitalistic world people here in Lemmy so much loathe. I get it, there are lots and lots and lots and lots of really bad companies and bosses and co-workers around that only think of themselves, but in the meantime there are also lots of places that do care about their employees because they know they couldn’t exist without them and that people tend to work better if they enjoy what they do and where they work.

Technically true, if they are a highly skilled worker that’s in low supply

You don’t have to earn wild sums of money, you just have to be able to live below your means and save the rest. Sure, the absolute poorest people don’t have that luxury, and also in very expensive locations it’s the same even for some relatively high salary people too. For the rest of us, assuming that our capitalistic system doesn’t collapse, 500e (or dollars) per month for ~30 years gets you there. If you’re able to start while you’re 20 by some miracle, you would be a millionaire by 50. Or, 300e a month for roughly 37 years gets you above the mark. Now, one million euros or dollars will not buy you the same stuff then as it would today so you still wouldn’t be “filthy rich” but that wasn’t the point here. Also, if you were to just stop saving after passing the magical two commas, the money would theoretically double in 9 years making you a multi-millionaire. This is assuming 9% yearly interest for your investments over the whole time which is slightly below S&P500 all-time average (not accounting inflation).

Compounding interest is the keyword and that’s why rich people keep on getting richer and poor people poorer - it works both ways, in savings and in loans. Not everyone has to achieve the million coin mark either - just be aware of how the system functions and make your decisions accordingly. If you decide to live in a nicer location or enjoy traveling or nice vehicles or eat nice food or do whatever instead of accumulating wealth, it’s completely fine. That’s actually required for our eternal growth in the market after all. On the other hand, wealth accumulation gives you options in the future if you get fed up with your boss for example.

ftfy. please consider reading theory

I think you might’ve misunderstood my point, and that’s probably my bad for leaving it a bit ambiguous. At least in my mind, the people that get to hundreds of millions or into billions, are usually some startup founders (where success is mostly luck) or people achieving big corporation CxO level which usually is not happening by just making friends on the way climbing up the corporate ladder. That also needs a little bit of luck, because as you mentioned, you could be shafted at any point in your career hard. Also you need to be a workaholic and at least slightly narcissistic. Getting born into the right family wouldn’t hurt either. So that’s not something everyone could do in my opinion and that’s why I wouldn’t mix “normal” workforce into this at all.

And well, I don’t know what you mean by “refusing to participate in such system”. Usually people have a choice of working for a big corporation or choosing to work for smaller companies that tend to be more employee-friendly, at least in my experience. Maybe there are differences in some expertise areas that I’m not aware of but otherwise if you wish to work for some humane employers, seek smaller companies and skip the Elon Musk -like sweatshops that try to squeeze you to work 60 hours a week minimum all the time. Relocation is not an entirely bad thing either if that helps you find a healthier workplace. Now, if you refuse to work at all, well, that wouldn’t work even in socialism or in small African villages where everyone expects others to contribute to the village functioning. You just have to find the right “village” that you want to help keep on running and maybe grow it while at it if everyone so desires.

I mean, given enough time, just a mere salary man can become a millionaire (and with more time, a multi-millionaire) only by keeping their spending low and stashing the rest of their net salary into index funds. Sure, that’s capitalism which isn’t too popular in Lemmy, but it’s just an example of how a millionaire can really just be a normal, somewhat frugal, person. They aren’t showing their wealth though because that’s the reason they are able to save such a nest-egg so you can’t really tell if your neighbor is secretly wealthy or not.

Billionaires (and “multihundredmillionaires”) are a completely different group of people though, and no normal person is able to amass such wealth without a shit-ton of luck and most probably some abuse as well.

Well at least the buggy software will eventually generate more jobs because they need more hands fixing everything while AI can’t do it.

Well I mean stuff always has some costs assigned to it. Even if we are talking about Google or software in general, there are still people needed to create and maintain the software itself for the products, who in part also need to put some food on the table and get a roof above their heads. Then there are the infrastructure costs which are enormous on a global video streaming service like Youtube. Now, I do acknowledge that Google engineers are usually insanely well-paid, but that’s the way life is when you absolutely need the people working for you. Other companies might choose to cut features while searching for cheaper developers but it is what it is. In the end, nothing is free and you always end up paying for services in a way or another. And I’m not sure if I would like to continue on the “free” services path that we saw in the last 15 years.

You are absolutely right! Part of the horribleness is exactly companies like Google who were the ones teaching people that everything should be “free” as in usable without explicit money transaction, and now they are the ones who are (thanks to EU I guess) trying to revert that and make the business model viable through subscription.

So I do get why the problem exists and I feel no empathy for the companies that are to blame for that. But, I do worry that we have a whole generation of people who think that stuff should just exist and have no monetary value like it just materialized out of thin air without anyone working on it before and neither having to keep it running. That is not a healthy mental model and it will contribute to predatory companies being able to harvest data out of these people in the future meanwhile privacy-first companies can’t get them as customers because they have to actually ask for money for their services.

Weird to see this downvoted. Youtube is actually a good service that also isn’t cheap to run, and it also pays good(?) money to the people producing popular content on the platform so why not pay for using it? Or, you know, live with the ad infestation. Businesses need money to run, and if you don’t pay for the content, then either it’s the ads or eventually the whole platform needs to be shut down.

It is a separate discussion if Premium pricing is appropriate etc. But it’s quite horrifying to see people around the world having been taught into thinking that everything should be “free” even though at the same time everyone is complaining about privacy violation and ads being everywhere all the time.

Same! I started with Ubuntu back in the days and was shocked how weirdly bad it is nowadays when I was forced to use it at my current project with the client’s laptop. I mean the happy path is still all fun and easy but after having Ubuntu installed, it’s almost like a Windows experience trying to get stuff installed vs. having AUR available :D

I have to give huge thank you to Valve for making gaming on Linux actually a valid option. I’ve been mainly a Linux user since 2006 but always had to have a dual-boot setup for gaming. Seeing the progress on Proton, I decided a year or two ago that Windows 10 was going to be the last one I’ll have on my PC and since my SSD died a couple of months ago, I didn’t even bother to preserve the Win10 installation anymore.

Funnily enough on my front page, the next link below this post was “Microsoft starts testing ads in the Windows 11 Start Menu”. I think that pretty much sums it up why I don’t want to even try to mess with the thing anymore. It’s been a good run and Windows has improved A LOT since XP days but oh dear god all the data harvesting nowadays…

EDIT: Yeah the link says pretty much the same things (and more) than I did below.

I think it says more about Epic’s launcher and sales tactics than about Valve’s dominance. I mean, up to a certain point you can compensate your inferior product with a lower price point but if the trade-off is too high, then even giving something out for free doesn’t help. Epic’s launcher has been quite bad without any clear development in my eyes for a long time, and I can as well relate to the other commenter about not being able to use it natively on Linux. It’s just not something worth a few saved euros to put up with.

I do wonder what’s the Steam users’ demography nowadays. Are there so many adults who earn a decent salary that they can afford actually paying for their games and enjoy a working platform (Steam) instead of saving a buck and losing their hair on the rare occasion they have the time to play something? That can be a tough crowd to lure in with some occasional free games.

But doesn’t Creative get rid of the need to actually collect the materials you need? It was so fun back in the days to dig out huge holes in the ground just to build a castle, and also die a bunch of times because you were a bit careless and dug straight down only to discover a large mine right below you :D I don’t miss the buggy trains though. If I remember correctly, it took quite a long while for them to actually work properly in multiplayer.

But oh how time files - I just bought the damn game back in 2010 😂 IIRC it was right around the time Notch bumped the version up from Infdev to Alpha and I think there wasn’t even proper multiplayer implemented yet then, or it was so much in it’s beginnings that it had pretty much no features, like not even spawning mobs or having damage or anything. Later during my university studies we were actually using Minecraft to get our heads wrapped around electronics and latches in our study group and as a part of our course work first built our digital clock in MC with redstone before actually making the assignment on paper 😄

Even if Minecraft isn’t exactly the same game anymore as it used to be, it’s still nice to see it exist and be available after all these years. The core mechanics are still great and one can still play the older versions if they so wish.

I’m curious, what exactly gives a sense of OP being an Israel supporter? I read the post as good pondering about the reasoning for Israel’s reactions and some good analogy for US readers through the 9/11 attacks and reactions for it.

It’s pretty much required that a nation will either defend themselves or even counterattack heavily if someone attacks them or otherwise they won’t stay independent very long (see Ukraine currently or Europe in 1930-1940s) and understanding that doesn’t make someone automatically a supporter of either side. Now, it’s a good thing to discuss about the size of Israel’s reaction because completely destroying another country over a terrorist attack is not going to end up well either. This is something where the 9/11 comparison works well in my mind.

Many people also seem to forget that not everyone has a dedicated room or otherwise extra space to work in. Sure, if you live alone it doesn’t matter but with other people living in the same apartment/house and perhaps them also working remotely, you suddenly need extra space just for good working conditions. Working space has a cost, be it in an office building or at employees’ homes. Also good ergonomics means one needs a good desk and a great office chair which are not cheap to buy. Sure, I wouldn’t necessarily demand more pay just for WFH, but I would never ever ever take a lower compensation in exchange either.

That said, I love working remotely from home and wouldn’t go back to office. It’s just that even if you save time and money in commutes, there are other costs in place that wouldn’t otherwise necessarily exist.

It’s the same here in Finland. Only one provider (DNA) offers IPv6 for residential customers and others are “working on it” still.

No wonder! I’ve lately noticed that some non-AAA games run way better on Linux than Windows on my computer (5950X, RTX3090). For some reason Barotrauma seems to lag heavily while playing on Windows but runs buttersmooth on Linux. Valheim has similar effect as well.

Also I have already decided that Win10 is going to be the last Windows version on my machine ever. Gaming on Linux has gotten so damn good over the last few years that I see no reason upgrading my Windows installation anymore.

Is the PS5 controller limitation for playing single player games? With multiplayer games the PS4 controllers work just fine IIRC.

Proton’s free tier is a step to right direction, and at least they don’t run a huge advertisement company that could benefit from the free tier users’ data. And if you pay for Proton Unlimited, you also get access to SimpleLogin’s Premium tier which is nice. I just found this out when I finally bit the bullet and changed away from Gmail over to Proton. Now I don’t have to expose my real email address to some random never-to-be-seen-again websites or campaigns if I don’t want to.

If one has enough motivation, time and interest in purchasing their own domain, you can get one step forward with changing away from Gmail. Then you can pay something like 5€/month for Proton Mail Plus, use your own domain as your email address and if one day you find a better email provider, you could just change the MX records for that service and wouldn’t have to go through all your accounts and update the new address to all the places.

I had pondered moving away from Gmail years and years ever since I found out Google doesn’t have any real customer support and HN had stories where people had suddenly been locked out of their Google accounts because of some silly reason and couldn’t get their accounts back without some inside connections. At one point most of my digital life was at the mercy of Google and losing access to my Gmail or Google Calendar or G Drive would have been a disaster. Reading all these web-DRM news reminded me that I should continue de-googlefying my life and finally made the change. Firefox has been my primary browser for years and I moved over to iPhone with my phone.

Oops indeed. I wonder if they have any QA left at all, and if anyone in the development team actually uses Twitter anymore?

Thanks for the nightmares. I love it.