Infectious diseases expert Jeremy Farrar has himself been at the center of the debate over the mysterious origins of COVID, which first broke out in China in late 2019.
No one disputes that this could be a transcendence issue, but China’s continuous blocking any efforts that are not controlled by them makes any investigation suspect. The Chinese should have already hosted an investigation. This will have been presented to the initial who investigation. Any further investigations will have zero credibility.
Any attempt to force China to accept inspectors from the Euro-centric world already has zero credibility given the number of times the Euro-centric world has used this exact ruse as a pretext for espionage and war propaganda
There are not supposed to be military establishments in the area. There were European scientist in the Wuhan facility before covid was active. This adds to the conspiracy theories. It may very well be that the origins came from the caves, but China does not help anyone in dissuading the narrative.
China is under no obligation to dissuade the Euro-centric world from a conspiracy theory narrative, and it has been moving itself into that posture for some time now. The US and Europe have been rattling sabres for years now, and that’s well after a full century of humiliating China. If the West wants China to respond to their spurious conspiracy claims, they’re going to have make a lot more effort to show good faith. As it stands now, if I were Chinese, I wouldn’t trust the West within 100 miles of China.
If this is a good faith question, I highly recommend looking into modern Chinese history, starting with the 1800s. Europe brought China to its knees. Massive EuroAmerican fortunes were amassed through getting 40% of Chinese people addicted to opium, Forbes among them. The Chinese attempt to protect their people by outlawing opium was met with orientalism by the merchants who convinced the British navy to attack China and force it to allow the drug trade. The Opium Wars is how Britain ended up occupying Hong Kong and how Europeans were immune to Chinese law in all the major port cities.
When the PLA joined with the KMT to fight off the Japanese, the KMT then turned on the PLA and massacred as many as they could. The PLA eventually won the hearts and minds of the Chinese people and through a people’s war and through conversion of thousands of KMT soldiers to the PLA defeated the KMT who ran away to Taiwan. The British then stepped in and prevented the PLA from continuing to pursue the KMT because the British wanted the KMT to be their puppet regime. And that’s how Taiwan got into the mess it’s in.
The West spent a century dominating China, eventually even imposing tarrifs on behalf of China on goods that passsed through China, but all the tarrifs were collected by the Europeans! China finally stood up in 1949, but it has not finished pushing European influence out of its region. So the idea that the WHO should be trusted to be impartial when literally everything the West has done is weaponized against its enemies is laughable.
I am not going to listen to arguments based on events from 200 years ago. My family were being starved in Ireland back then.
China was a closed nation for a very long time. Any developments in China are down to China themselves. Do you even know the term of the Cold War?
There were no friendly arrangements between the west and China until very recent. The hand of friendship has been extended due to the collapse of Russia and the west recognising the futility of being aggressive for the sake of being aggressive. China also opened it borders, something unthinkable before the USSR collapsed. Since the cooling of relations between the west and China, China has abused that hand of friendship in many areas. Is it any wonder that hostilities are building up again?
I am not going to listen to arguments based on events from 200 years ago
1950 was less than 100 years ago dumbass
The hand of friendship has been extended due to the collapse of Russia and the west recognising the futility of being aggressive for the sake of being aggressive
The sino-soviet split and triangular diplomacy says what?
The US is based entirely on arguments from 200 years ago, the fuck you talking about?
Your family was being starved in Ireland by the fucking English 200 years ago and Ireland is still dealing with English occupation of their land. The English also starved India, and it wasn’t 200 years ago. You think that forced famine is somehow more relevant than the forced famine in Ireland? It’s not. History is present now.
China was a closed nation because why? Why is China being closed bad? Why is it European right to forcibly open China? What kind of fucking argument is that?
And then to top it off you think the West gave up on being aggressive? What fucking planet do you live on because here on Earth the West is still bombing the shit out of countries, lynching national leaders in the streets, training terrorists and assassins, and violently killing and subjugating people all over the world. And you think the West extended a “friendly hand” that China has spurned. Holy shit you are fucking delusional. Read a fucking book.
And China is still stealing land and minerals from other countries. What exactly is your point? That the only people who should respect fairness and equality are everyone else except China?
Go tell that to the Myanmar where you are currently stealing copper from mining, or the Uyghurs where genocide is very evident, or the many other areas China is nothing more than a shitty country to deal with. No owes China anything, and China certainly does not do anything for anyone else without self interest. You victimise your own people even when they are outside of your own borders. You intimidate the families of those who disagree with you. You steal kids from their home to reindoctrinate them. The list just keeps growing. China is not deserving of any respect, at least not anymore than the respect it gives to others.
People like you: I don’t care about history, we’re different today and you should let us do what we want.
China: go fuck yourself.
And yet people like you are shocked that’s what China tells you. China’s been here for thousands of years, for China 200 years is recent history. It’s cute that your people were starving though, hopefully that happens to you.
Imagine somebody you dated physically and emotionally abused you for 20 years and then 10 years later they get upset that you still care about something that happened so long ago lmao
Common sense would dictate that we look into the cause of the pandemic. But I totally get the fear of the pointless propaganda war that would have probably come out of it.
It’s beyond belief at this point how much the western press will bend any story about China into China bad.
I guarantee that you would be cooking up these conspiracy theories regardless of any investigations that China had allowed. They could have shipped every citizen of Wuhan straight to your house so you could personally interview them and it still wouldn’t be enough.
Where’s the credibility? All you do is call people bots because you can’t handle being disagreed with. Where’s your factual basis for your claims? Where’s your trustworthy sources and references? You have nothing except childish racism and insults
They don’t have any factual basis. They’re an incredibly bitter small minded racist. They’ve been posting the same shit on almost every thread they’re in. It’s really sad to to see. As much as we teach our children about tolerance and acceptance you still get people like this with their warped views. They’re too far down the rabbit hole of racism to notice so will just lash out at anyone by calling them a bot. It’s pathetic.
:yea: what’s really sad is that it seems like they think they’re in some sort of brave fight against evil Chinese propaganda, which there’s apparently dedicated a lot of resources to spread on a niche webforum
You can’t just assume someone is racist because they disagree with you. It’s like calling you antisemitic for criticizing Israel. They brought up that China shouldn’t have blocked initial investigations and instead of replying with any facts yourself, you immediately jumped to assuming they’re racist and how they would’ve behaved if they hadn’t.
I’m not assuming people are racist because they disagree with me. I’m pointing out that their gut-reaction accusation of calling others a “chinese bot” is racist.
This has nothing to do with disagreeing. I made no assumptions, I pointed out racist language and behaviour.
They brought up that China shouldn’t have blocked initial investigations and instead of replying with any facts yourself
Other users have already engaged with them in this argument, to which they responded with racist accusations of being “chinese bots”.
Since they have already shown that this is how they behave, and since I have similarly pointed this out to them - which also resulted in childish racism as a response from them - why would I in any way validate them with civility?
No one disputes that this could be a transcendence issue, but China’s continuous blocking any efforts that are not controlled by them makes any investigation suspect. The Chinese should have already hosted an investigation. This will have been presented to the initial who investigation. Any further investigations will have zero credibility.
Any attempt to force China to accept inspectors from the Euro-centric world already has zero credibility given the number of times the Euro-centric world has used this exact ruse as a pretext for espionage and war propaganda
There are not supposed to be military establishments in the area. There were European scientist in the Wuhan facility before covid was active. This adds to the conspiracy theories. It may very well be that the origins came from the caves, but China does not help anyone in dissuading the narrative.
China is under no obligation to dissuade the Euro-centric world from a conspiracy theory narrative, and it has been moving itself into that posture for some time now. The US and Europe have been rattling sabres for years now, and that’s well after a full century of humiliating China. If the West wants China to respond to their spurious conspiracy claims, they’re going to have make a lot more effort to show good faith. As it stands now, if I were Chinese, I wouldn’t trust the West within 100 miles of China.
We have just had a world pandemic. Common sense states that we should be looking into that.
Humiliating China in what way?
If this is a good faith question, I highly recommend looking into modern Chinese history, starting with the 1800s. Europe brought China to its knees. Massive EuroAmerican fortunes were amassed through getting 40% of Chinese people addicted to opium, Forbes among them. The Chinese attempt to protect their people by outlawing opium was met with orientalism by the merchants who convinced the British navy to attack China and force it to allow the drug trade. The Opium Wars is how Britain ended up occupying Hong Kong and how Europeans were immune to Chinese law in all the major port cities.
When the PLA joined with the KMT to fight off the Japanese, the KMT then turned on the PLA and massacred as many as they could. The PLA eventually won the hearts and minds of the Chinese people and through a people’s war and through conversion of thousands of KMT soldiers to the PLA defeated the KMT who ran away to Taiwan. The British then stepped in and prevented the PLA from continuing to pursue the KMT because the British wanted the KMT to be their puppet regime. And that’s how Taiwan got into the mess it’s in.
The West spent a century dominating China, eventually even imposing tarrifs on behalf of China on goods that passsed through China, but all the tarrifs were collected by the Europeans! China finally stood up in 1949, but it has not finished pushing European influence out of its region. So the idea that the WHO should be trusted to be impartial when literally everything the West has done is weaponized against its enemies is laughable.
I am not going to listen to arguments based on events from 200 years ago. My family were being starved in Ireland back then.
China was a closed nation for a very long time. Any developments in China are down to China themselves. Do you even know the term of the Cold War?
There were no friendly arrangements between the west and China until very recent. The hand of friendship has been extended due to the collapse of Russia and the west recognising the futility of being aggressive for the sake of being aggressive. China also opened it borders, something unthinkable before the USSR collapsed. Since the cooling of relations between the west and China, China has abused that hand of friendship in many areas. Is it any wonder that hostilities are building up again?
Enjoy remaining incredibly stupid and easily manipulated for the rest of your life.
Why thank you very much. Please enjoy the next conversation you have where you present many other arguments with absolutely no foundation or basis.
1950 was less than 100 years ago dumbass
The sino-soviet split and triangular diplomacy says what?
1800 was not. China are supposed to be good at maths, wtf happened to you? They obviously do not spend a lot on bots these days.
The US is based entirely on arguments from 200 years ago, the fuck you talking about?
Your family was being starved in Ireland by the fucking English 200 years ago and Ireland is still dealing with English occupation of their land. The English also starved India, and it wasn’t 200 years ago. You think that forced famine is somehow more relevant than the forced famine in Ireland? It’s not. History is present now.
China was a closed nation because why? Why is China being closed bad? Why is it European right to forcibly open China? What kind of fucking argument is that?
And then to top it off you think the West gave up on being aggressive? What fucking planet do you live on because here on Earth the West is still bombing the shit out of countries, lynching national leaders in the streets, training terrorists and assassins, and violently killing and subjugating people all over the world. And you think the West extended a “friendly hand” that China has spurned. Holy shit you are fucking delusional. Read a fucking book.
And China is still stealing land and minerals from other countries. What exactly is your point? That the only people who should respect fairness and equality are everyone else except China?
Go tell that to the Myanmar where you are currently stealing copper from mining, or the Uyghurs where genocide is very evident, or the many other areas China is nothing more than a shitty country to deal with. No owes China anything, and China certainly does not do anything for anyone else without self interest. You victimise your own people even when they are outside of your own borders. You intimidate the families of those who disagree with you. You steal kids from their home to reindoctrinate them. The list just keeps growing. China is not deserving of any respect, at least not anymore than the respect it gives to others.
People like you: I don’t care about history, we’re different today and you should let us do what we want.
China: go fuck yourself.
And yet people like you are shocked that’s what China tells you. China’s been here for thousands of years, for China 200 years is recent history. It’s cute that your people were starving though, hopefully that happens to you.
Enjoy your life Chinese bot.
China opened up long before the soviet union collapsed. that’s just wrong.
like 20 years wrong. You really need to do some reading chief.
Imagine somebody you dated physically and emotionally abused you for 20 years and then 10 years later they get upset that you still care about something that happened so long ago lmao
it’s a thing and kind of rough
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation
Common sense would dictate that we look into the cause of the pandemic. But I totally get the fear of the pointless propaganda war that would have probably come out of it.
It’s beyond belief at this point how much the western press will bend any story about China into China bad.
goddamnit is this what we get for federating with libs? Unironic lab leak theory? Truly bleak
They think conspiracy theories are just something Qanon does
This, except the lab in question is Fort Detrick.
You’re the one generalizing everyone as “libs”
I guarantee that you would be cooking up these conspiracy theories regardless of any investigations that China had allowed. They could have shipped every citizen of Wuhan straight to your house so you could personally interview them and it still wouldn’t be enough.
I guarantee that you are just another bot set up to deflect any negative comments about China regardless of how credible they seem.
Where’s the credibility? All you do is call people bots because you can’t handle being disagreed with. Where’s your factual basis for your claims? Where’s your trustworthy sources and references? You have nothing except childish racism and insults
They don’t have any factual basis. They’re an incredibly bitter small minded racist. They’ve been posting the same shit on almost every thread they’re in. It’s really sad to to see. As much as we teach our children about tolerance and acceptance you still get people like this with their warped views. They’re too far down the rabbit hole of racism to notice so will just lash out at anyone by calling them a bot. It’s pathetic.
:yea: what’s really sad is that it seems like they think they’re in some sort of brave fight against evil Chinese propaganda, which there’s apparently dedicated a lot of resources to spread on a niche webforum
O er, the racism card again.
You could just stop being racist. It’s really easy not to get called a racist actually. I do it all the time. I don’t get called a racist daily.
You can’t just assume someone is racist because they disagree with you. It’s like calling you antisemitic for criticizing Israel. They brought up that China shouldn’t have blocked initial investigations and instead of replying with any facts yourself, you immediately jumped to assuming they’re racist and how they would’ve behaved if they hadn’t.
I’m not assuming people are racist because they disagree with me. I’m pointing out that their gut-reaction accusation of calling others a “chinese bot” is racist.
This has nothing to do with disagreeing. I made no assumptions, I pointed out racist language and behaviour.
Other users have already engaged with them in this argument, to which they responded with racist accusations of being “chinese bots”.
Since they have already shown that this is how they behave, and since I have similarly pointed this out to them - which also resulted in childish racism as a response from them - why would I in any way validate them with civility?
Tell em to quit saying racist shit then
That wording totally doesn’t sound racist.
Something happens in Kenya
Bad bot.
Everyone that disagrees with the diet-racist liberal is a Chinese/Russian bot, a bedtime story for diet-racist liberals.
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