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Cake day: June 6th, 2023

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  • I know this is pedantic, but that’s just not right. Amish and Mennonites are generally distinct.

    Well, Jakob Ammann, who the Amish are named after, was a member of a Swiss Brethren church (now called Mennonite) who didn’t think his Mennonite brethren did enough shunning (a core principle of the Swiss Brethren).

    So he formed his own church. Eventually members in his church (surprise!), shunned him over some different differences, as it happens when you join a group with all the cantankerous people. And it continued so on and so forth.

    The distinctions might be in practical matters that arise over time–like fabrics used in their dress, use of buttons vs hook fasteners, or use of technology, or use of English vs German, but theologically they’re pretty much identical and these differences are just natural things that happen over time.

    An Amish church split is really just two groups mass shunning each other. There’s no real difference.

    And I’m aware it probably doesn’t seem like that closer up, because I’m speaking very abstractly. But I can’t see how anything you’ve said disagrees with what I’ve said.

    And, I want to say I do appreciate hearing your experiences. For the record: I have a degree in Bible, did some post-grad study on church history, have some family members who are Mennonite, and grew up pretty close to a large Amish community.



  • Correct. Amish are Mennonites who shun other Mennonites. The elders of their church decide for the local congregation what is and isn’t appropriate conduct. If you disagree, you are shunned.

    If the congregation down the road disagrees, those folks are shunned.

    So you get very customized, local, specific lists about what is and isn’t allowable.

    Really, it looks more extreme, but it’s no different than independent baptist churches or churches of christ ‘disfellowship’-ing with other congregations over doctrinal minutia.

    In all cases you will get a few congregations thinking that only their congregation of 20-50 folks are the only ones in the world who “go to heaven”. 😂

    So, all Amish might not agree what technologies are worth shunning over, but they all agree that some technologies are worth restricting their members access to, upon penalty of shunning.








  • You can put a myriad of setup and administration options into the GUI and most people still have no interest in them. These people just have no interest in using a computer like that. They “just want it to work”. It’s not a CLI v. GUI problem, it’s one of assumed responsibility.

    This is an inherent limitation of “free as in freedom” software.

    “Free as in freedom” really only refers to developers. The non-developers are beholden to whoever packages and distributes their software for them. We Linux users who aren’t system developers let the “distro maintainers” do the developer work for us. That’s why a distro’s website is full of mission statements and declarations of philosophy–it’s how we decide who to trust.

    And it’s the same for the “non-nerds” with system administration. Businesses hire admins to handle their internal software and networks, and at home people let Apple, Microsoft or Google take increasingly more control over their devices so that they aren’t responsible for getting it all working.


  • Apple’s success came from Microsoft’s negligence. Too many people had Windows XP computers at home wrecked with toolbars and spyware and garbage.

    And people gladly left for a walled garden platform that locked down everything and didn’t require them to administer their own systems.

    The biggest success in the Linux world has been Chromebooks and Android, where Google administers the system for the user.

    Most people don’t choose linux because they can’t administer their own system. A system that lets them administer however they want has no appeal to them. They instinctively know they can’t handle that responsibility. They need their hands held.