You are talking about user-level blocking, whereas iirc defederation is an instance-level blocking that also stops user comments too, as well as votes.

The “election” is perpetual. People will vote with their participation.

As it should always be.

I wonder where they went?

I mean, that’s how they want to be, so whatever, they can enjoy it.

But that’s not how *I* want to be - and I resented having it thrust upon me without consent, in the form of being able to make an informed choice. They do not clearly state how they are, yet they are that way, hence the disconnect.

Like any authoritarian regime, they have drunk their own cool-aid and they seem to both not acknowledge it whilst simultaneously also flaunting it proudly - i.e. how they are looks to be by design, not ignorance or whatever.

And ofc the obligatory caveat that not all people on those servers are that way - e.g. you were there, until you weren’t anymore:-P. But it does form a trend. And I for one would rather that people be able to make an informed choice. Like someone go there if they want, but don’t you come here and tell me how to be.

Yes an echo chamber provides value to them in terms of an emotional reinforcement, though it’s dangerous b/c what gets reinforced becomes thereby divorced from logic. i.e., “might makes right”, which works so long as you ignore the alternative that “the pen (Reason) is mightier than the sword (Might)” - i.e. the value is purely local amongst themselves, who choose to refuse to see outside.

Even so, the code for the Fediverse came from the guy who started lemmygrad.ml iirc, and it was freely offered to the world not in spite of but b/c of that belief in communistic philosophical principles. In contrast, Reddit and most other alternatives started here in the USA - like squabbles to name one (looks to now be renamed to squabblr or something?) - did not offer their sourcecode freely, and instead tried to monetize their user base, and this too not in spite of but b/c of their own beliefs in capitalistic principles.

As long as they are honest about it though, I’m fine with them. The problem is that they are not, nor are they respectful to others… so I ban them and move on with my life. I am not kidding: if I could not have banned them, I would have left the Fediverse entirely - they are that annoying. So being able to easily improve my Fediverse experience by 95% with 1-2 instance blocks (lemmygrad.ml is often blocked by default, and many others though seemingly fewer likewise also block hexbear.net) is wonderful!:-)

Oh I did not know that. Sometimes the answer to “where would you go, if you were a troll” may just happen to be the same answer as “where would you go, if you were not a troll”:-).

Meh, to be fair, communism gave us all the likes of Mastodon and Lemmy, whereas capitalism gave us all Twitter/X and Reddit so… it’s not like I’m knocking the politics even, so much as the extremely annoying manner in which those thoughts are handled, sometimes.

Imagine a Karen who regardless of actual right vs. wrong, thinks they are right, but more importantly just enjoys slamming it into people’s faces. Like, if you really think that you are correct, why work so hard to convince people of that “fact” - you catch more flies with honey than vinegar - and who exactly are you trying to convince bully even?

Likewise even a factually correct endpoint can be made into part of an incorrect statement if arrived at via a false chain of logical deduction - i.e., even a stopped watch is right twice a day, but that doesn’t mean that you should trust the watch from then on!? A statement that includes a logical fallacy, even if deployed in order to defend a true statement, is still false, even if the underlying fact also happened to be true.

And if there is anything I am learning from the internet, it is that trolling exists, yet not everyone is a troll, and it improves my mental sanity >95% to block such. I used to be proud of never blocking anyone, ever. I grew up though, in seeing how others refuse to grow.:-D

You might try an experiment and make an account somewhere, and see how different some posts and their complement of comments look, in terms of which instances you may choose to block, and also which individuals may have blocked your instance in return…

Well *I* don’t, thus keep in mind that I may be summarizing here the reasons that others do incorrectly &/or unfairly, but from what I understand people are saying:

(1) often when people get extremely argumentative (aka bat shit insane crazy trolling) it is from there. Who wants to talk to someone who is rude, condescending, and doesn’t listen in the slightest to your POV before loudly proclaiming how very wrong you are, even while using logical fallacies (such as strawman) as they do so?:-P Counterpoint: that can happen on any sufficiently large instance e.g. lemmy.world too? Though it does seem to happen more often on lemmy.ml for whatever reason.

(2) it may be relevant (tbh I’m not entirely sure how though?) that it leans fairly hardcore to what many people e.g. in the USA would consider an extreme leftist viewpoint, as in so far to the left that it may even become uncomfortable to someone living in a society that leans more rightwards even if the person in it considers themselves an “extreme leftist” in relation to that center point. Along these lines, are “memes” merely political propaganda that happens to be drawn in a cartoonish form? (Though this is an argument pertaining to merely a community, not an entire instance.)

Thank you so much for the update. Oh wow what a turn-around. I can only guess he was desperate to grow the site and did whatever he thought would help his profits. I really do enjoy the mode of thinking behind the Fediverse so much more!:-)

There are several closed group options or other closed source ones that aim to be just like Reddit in practice but not exactly it in theory. Ironically the Reddit alternatives sub on Reddit is probably the best place to get such a list 😜.

I enjoyed Squabbles for a bit - it was described at the time as toxically non-toxic as in very much anti-hate speech, though I don’t know how it’s fared recently. At the end of the day though it’s just one guy’s project, and while he’s no Huffman, still the entire thing turns around him, very unlike the Fediverse that can become anything we want it to be.

If you do remain on Lemmy, learn which things to block bc that will improve your experience substantially. Just blocking lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net improved mine 95%, and ironically some people (not me) also block Lemmy.ml. You will come to find what works for you, I am just saying that the experience varies enormously depending on that one factor!

This alone is enough to answer why people need to vote for Biden next term!!!

I mean… that depends on what metric you are going by, I suppose.

Not by personal happiness, or by health outcomes, or “freedom”, or safety, or education, or (non-military) technology, or … well the list gets rather extensive.

To be fair, the USA did used to lead the world, e.g. being first if not to space then to the moon, and we sequenced the human genome, and computers were invented here, and there’s Hollywood serving up movies and culture all over the world, etc., so I am not knocking any of the past achievements. Notably, after WWII we did get a bit of an “uneven” start compared to countries like the UK that were bombed by Germany whereas the USA emerged fairly unscathed, and yet we took that headstart and really went for it! We indeed were the most successful country in the world - unquestioned by almost anyone.

However, lately… well, “the economy” is still booming, but most average people are going to die significantly sooner than their parents generation did, possibly by a terrorist event such as a school shooting that we have nothing whatsoever to try to stop, health outcomes are abysmal, and many millennials and especially Gen-Zers strongly doubt that they will ever be able to afford a home, seeing how homes have become “investments” rather than places to live in, colleges costs have quintupled, most jobs today for younger people are “temporary” positions in the gig economy, etc. etc. etc.

You do bring up a good point: compared to the rest of the world we still do have it pretty good, in some ways. It is just that compared to how we ourselves used to have it e.g. 50 years ago, we are doing significantly worse, relatively speaking.

Look at almost any list, e.g. the top 10 scientific discoveries, or engineering accomplishments, and America barely makes those lists anymore. Other nations with drive & heart like India or China are sacrificing so that they can outpace us. That’s fine I guess, they needed their turn:-). But at some point we should ourselves: what exactly makes us “successful”… these days?

You might think that I am one of those that hates America, but I do not think of myself that way, it is just that I am questioning our place and how it has changed over the years. Though perhaps I am simply paying attention to the wrong sources, so if you want to send me something to read or watch that answers that, I would like to learn. So far though, everything that I have learned lately ends up just depressing me b/c it at least appears to be a decay, and not just morally.

Russia can be smart… in some ways, sometimes (while also simultaneously dumb in others, as aren’t we all?:-P). e.g. wasn’t it 2025 that Germany was scheduled to eliminate its dependence upon Russian oil (or was it rather all?) for energy. Knowing this does seem likely to have influenced the timeline of events somewhat, seeing how in that regard at least (and some others) it was the perfect time to strike - i.e. if they had waited longer it would have become far more difficult?

And let’s be blunt: if they had managed to take over what they wanted in that “three-day” timetable as initially planned, wouldn’t Europe have simply let them have it? As we consider that, let us not kid ourselves here b/c this invasion has gone on for a decade at this point - Georgia, Crimea, the area west of Crimea, etc. - each time citing “no, I swear, this was all that I wanted, I won’t do this ever again, I promise”. So if EU nations are somehow shocked, Shocked I tell you, SHOCKED, that those leopards would not one day turn and eat THEIR faces off, then I don’t know what to tell them…

However, I was pleased to note how e.g. Germany quickly turned its economy upside down and started mass-producing weapons. They tend to be a very smart and technically-minded people, so I for one have no problems believing that it at least could have been a strategic move on their part to “not have weapons”, when they were not immediately needed, yet also be ready to start producing them at a moment’s notice when the need for such became apparent - as you pointed out.

Likewise but with very different factors involved, those nations physically closest to Russia may have wanted weapons yet been afraid of enraging the bear by having them? So what I am trying, probably ineptly, to say is that it may not “purely” be due to willful ignorance on behalf of every EU nation, to lay down those older-style weapons that cost a lot yet haven’t been necessary for literally decades. A better cost-to-benefit ratio may have been to invest in something like energy independence, so long as the military factor was covered at some very minimal level.

Plus technology changes so fast… as we are seeing live in Ukraine, “tanks” were not the big thing, especially as Russia heavily misused them at first, compared to drones, right? So EU nations were “not prepared”, in the specific sense, but by investing into robotics and batteries and such, the converse does not seem quite true either i.e. we cannot say that those same nations were not entirely “unprepared” either?

That is why it is so amazing that Ukraine is holding off Russia, essentially acting as the shield for the entire fucking world, making Russia expend all of its military might & resources upon it, which could otherwise be put to use elsewhere, into saving up and preparing for the next target, which they ofc according to Russa “we have no plans for, b/c Ukraine is all that we want, we promise”!

Ukraine really does deserve aid then - they’ve earned that. But… there are >100 Republicans who seem to believe rather that Russia has “earned” the right to take whatever they want. And that should worry us all, around the world.

There’s a lot we could unpack there - e.g. it makes me all the more glad that they passed this, since we’ve already spent it either way!?

One quick item: Biden has stated that the aid can be there this week. He was prepared to spring on this. As you already said, this package was mostly to replenish already-spent funds, not as much directly to push forward with new ones. Although with that replenished stamina, I would expect to see new pushes happen as well.

Another big item is that Ukraine is not a member of the EU or NATO. As such it is “entitled” to nothing - everything that is being offered is purely voluntary. So, compared to nothing, $60B USD is quite a lot? Hence why he is grateful, and rightly so.

Another is that the USA does not need to be the sole provider of this aid - not that I am glad for the pause, but given that it happened anyway, I was heartened to see other nations rise up and cover the slack. And now for the USA to join the right side of history - well, better late than never, and all the more so with an amount this big!:-)

As you pointed out, the biggest one is that there is a faction within the US government that looks to be wanting Ukraine to fail, or more precisely for Russia to win. If Trump “wins” the next election, one way or another (i.e. legally or… otherwise), the USA may even go so far as to join Russia against Ukraine?! But for now, even delaying that aid may hamper it enough for Russia to finish the job. Maybe. Even so, this particular aid package got passed. Come what may, this one is a success. It is as important to celebrate success as it is to call out failures - failing to do either is biased, and therefore wrong.

Speaking of, the USA may also fail one day, less due to direct Russian military intervention and more from an internal civil war. But not today, b/c again, come what may, this particular aid package got passed, whoo-hoo!:-)

While true that the timing is shit, the amount is nowhere close to “table scraps” - this seems like it will legit be helpful, maybe even enough to turn the tide in Ukraine?

Also, it’s not like Congress fed its own and then waited months to feed the dog - rather, dinner for the entire family was delayed from the start of the fiscal year 2024 in October 1 until just a few weeks ago, involving the ousting of one Speaker of the House and almost doing so to the second as well. And now, this aid package for Ukraine may likewise finish the job of getting the Speaker kicked out, bc any time the government is “functional” is considered bad by some elements.

But the timing from passing the federal budget itself to passing this aid package is actually quite short. Yes it’s half a year late, but it did eventually happen, and the amount of aid is large, so is a “success” by multiple metrics, and all the more so given the opposition. If we do end up having a civil war as people like MTG are calling for, this may well be the last aid package that the USA ever manages to pass in the final stages of its democracy.

So imho we should take the win and be happy - we may not get to celebrate Congress doing routine activities like “passing budgets” very often in the future, even six months late.

If it helps, here is what Kansas did: went bankrupt, thought about it, then decided to do it again. Thought about it some more… well you get the drift.

What a time to be alive! Actually probably all times are this way, but climate change does put a bit of a new twist on that old theme:-(.

As you should be:-). It is possible for both sides of a conflict to be in the wrong:-P.

Bc corruption, one presumes, getting the government to get involved with people’s rights to choose. Yeah it’s weird for me too:-P.

Total deregulation=anarchy, but not all regulations are good either. This is the kind of stuff that made people choose capitalism in the first place, to try to get away from it (not that it worked, obviously).

On Reddit, where downvotes are anonymous, my niche sub (20k members but far fewer active) would continually get someone who would come in and downvote every single comment in an entire post. The time that it started and stopped was fairly obvious too b/c like in a Help & Questions megathread with literally 1000 comments, all of the replies would have a baseline value below the starting one (i.e., they would show 0 rather than 1), up until it stopped after which point they would all start at 1. That’s a pretty clear indicator that they were subverting the rules of Reddit. As a moderator, I repeatedly complained to the Reddit admins, who did not seem to give a shit.

I even had screenshots of people on an associated discord server calling out for such brigading attempts. I offered them to the admins, who never took me up on that. It also happened in a much larger, I guess you could say parent sub of 200k members. Hundreds of thousands of people getting downvoted… b/c of one unhappy kid, or someone acting like it.

At least here in the Fediverse we have tools at our disposal that were not available on Reddit. e.g. if you were to block all of those people, I think they cannot vote against your future posts any more? Though it could also be due to a simple misunderstanding of how to use Fediverse tools. And for someone who made their own instance, you could literally adjust the rules - I would guess? - so as to only show the results of voting e.g. for accounts older than X days, or only by members of that community, or something. Though that would take significant effort, both up-front and then to stay in compliance with future Lemmy updates if it was not integrated into the main code, and it would only benefit members of your specific instance.

For someone who so rarely downvotes anything - I usually either just block a troll entirely or at least ignore someone who looks like they may be having a bad day yet feels the need to share that with the entire world - I might not be providing much perspective here! But I hope these thoughts at least were somewhat interesting.

Literally: yes, e.g. https://medium.com/@max.p.schlienger/the-cargo-cult-of-the-ennui-engine-890c541cebcb.

For-profit enterprises hijacked people’s various needs to increase their profits, so that they can haz moar profitz while they earn their profits, as they chase even more-er-est profits. It is the same reason why when you go to a website that you have literally never visited before, much less do not have an account on, they have an icon that looks precisely like a “notifications” button, with a badge saying that you have “messages” waiting to be reviewed. 🤮

At least when piracy websites have such things, they also offer to let you download an interesting item, whereas when you visit a legitimate “news” page that someone sends you a link to, they show like 2 sentences before fading out into a full-page blocking advertisement that lets you sign up to pay money in order to continue to read even more click-baity headlines followed by maybe some tiny amount of content, if you are lucky - and even that is most often like one tiny new fact that happened in the last couple of days or weeks but appearing only after 5 pages of knowledge that has been known for decades, or worse yet they just forgo the latter entirely and the entire article is only a paragraph or two.

I am saying: if the true goal of most news websites was truly to impart knowledge then they could have done so better in the 10-second read of the TITLE itself than all the lead-up to get you to come to that page, full of ads and tricks to get you to scroll down further to see more ads, all while wasting your time reading through something that absolutely was not worthwhile.

I am spoiled by such things as https://www.youtube.com/@crashcourse that essentially throw multiple whole entire college curricula at you - THOSE ads would be worthwhile to watch, for THAT content. That is like turning a firehose of knowledge onto yourself. But then other people want you to watch even more ads, in return for far less content.

Kurzgesagt is another example. Rather than simply downvote others or reply with a childish “your (sic) stoopid (sic)”, they instead add to the collective body of human knowledge and experiences by taking an ENORMOUSLY complex subject such as vaccine side-effects, and break them down into <10-20-minute videos that are watchable by the general public, see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBkVCpbNnkU. THIS IS THE WAY, imho. But, they already do it, and other corpos want/need to make their own profits, hence they use “tricks” like Google SEOs to increase their own rankings while decreasing those of legitimate content such as these from Kurzgesagt or Crash Course.

So, whatever votes might have once meant, or should mean, then or now, at hand is what they are, for good or ill. Just exactly like how vaccine active disinformation exists, so it is no longer enough to cure a pandemic merely by doing all that hard work to create a vaccine - now you also have to work against the disinformation that exists.

And wrapping back to the matter at hand: while *I* might follow these guidelines, and *you* may do so as well, *most* people will not. The likes of Facebook have spoken, training those kids who have now grown up and moved on to other platforms but now others have followed in their wake, and this is the world that we live in now, for good or ill:-(.

You might also be interested in a reply I gave to another post entirely, so linking it here just in case it helps: https://startrek.website/comment/7601231.

I sincerely doubt it. The main reason might be that people actually think that they are “helping” by downvoting?

In their own eyes, such content actually should have their rankings lowered, yes? (most especially in the “those leopards surely won’t eat my face off” sense)

And tbh, isn’t that what a downvote button is meant for? So however sparingly we may choose to use it, can we really complain all that bitterly if others choose to use it more often?

As someone who already follows these guidelines, I believe that most other people will never follow these guidelines. Far worse, even if >95% of the people across the Fediverse were to, that’s still an awful lot of downvotes, compared to the number of people that have heard of a brand-new sub that is trying to get up off the ground.

Lemmy is at best beta-version software - the apps I hear are amazing but Lemmy itself is still relatively undeveloped (most of the time lately whenever I try to up-vote something, I have to do it 2-3 times for it to “stick”, and getting comments to go through is also problematic, sometimes I have to cancel and try again, across multiple platforms and OSes including Android and Mac, Firefox and Chrome). We are desperate for a place that is not Reddit or X, but if we want something, we have to build it.

My suggestion: make downvotes public, not just to admins and mods but to everyone. Tbh I doubt very much that that would do the trick, but it is a thought to try to help people break out of that system of “I am anonymous so I can be as insensitive to the needs of others as I wish” mindset. i.e., if they thought that there might be consequences, then they might behave ever-so-slightly better? But ofc that would only reach the subset of people who actually cared.