With these new rules, FIDE has managed to

  1. Imply the mental inferiority of women
  2. Validate the existence of transgender men
  3. Destroy the integrity of awards record-keeping
  4. Call transgender women men

Very nice, FIDE, incredible mental gymnastics performance! 👏 Add them to the ever lengthening sports federation shitlist.

  • RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Because it’s a restricted participation class, and like it or not the details of those restrictions are important to the participants.

    If the class exists because women want it, then it’s reasonable ask women participants what they want.

    If someone proposed a restricted class limited to PoC, it would be entirely appropriate to ask PoC what they think about the proposal.

    • FunctionFn@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Nah, I don’t buy it. The assumption with this line of thinking is that trans women don’t inherently belong to that class of participation. The majority of a group (cis women) do not get to unilaterally decide who is/is not a part of the greater group (women).

      If someone proposed a restricted class limited to PoC, it would be entirely appropriate to ask PoC what they think about the proposal.

      But following this analogy through, you’re not asking all PoC. You’re asking the majority of the subset (for example, black participants) whether a minority of the subset (for example, Asian participants) should be allowed to participate or not.

      In this case, the organizers of these tournaments are picking and choosing their own definitions for who qualify as “women” and listening only to those opinions. The decision is already made, and pointing to the remainder to justify the decision is working backwards from that conclusion.

      • RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        The assumption with this line of thinking is that trans women don’t inherently belong to that class of participation

        I don’t think it’s right to call it “an assumption”. By definition, a restricted competition class uses rules to establish who is allowed to participate. These rules are willfully and intentionally composed. When circumstances arise that make the rules ambiguous in some way, the participating community is called to clarify them.

        This isn’t unique to women’s chess, it applies to any restricted class sport or competition.

        But following this analogy through, you’re not asking all PoC. You’re asking the majority of the subset (for example, black participants) whether a minority of the subset (for example, Asian participants) should be allowed to participate or not.

        To be clear, I am not in any sense telling the chess world, much less women players, how to set the rules for their restricted class of competition. I am saying that women chess players are stakeholders in the rules of women’s chess. Precisely how their input is to be converted into a decision is not in my scope of understanding, and it would be presumptuous of me to hazard a guess at how they prefer to operate women’s chess.

        The decision is already made, and pointing to the remainder to justify the decision is working backwards

        Agreed, and that was not my intent.

        I genuinely don’t how or if women chess players were involved in this decision, I’m only responding to the assertion that asking “what cis women think about playing trans women” is morally equivalent to asking racists whether they want to play against black people. It paints current women players with a broad brush and disenfranchises them from the management of their own competition.

        • FunctionFn@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’m only responding to the assertion that asking “what cis women think about playing trans women” is morally equivalent to asking racists whether they want to play against black people.

          But I think this part is where the disconnect is happening. Before this decision, cis women and trans women were both components of women’s chess. The act of conferring with only a subset of that group implies that the other does not fall into that category. Relying only on the majority group’s opinion on the status of the minority group is itself an assumption that one of the groups inherently belongs less than the other.

          • RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            The act of conferring with only a subset of that group

            Cis women are stakeholders, I didn’t mean to imply that they are the only stakeholders That may be lack of clarity on my part. I definitely did not mean to suggest that ONLY cis women’s opinions matter, or should be considered in rulemaking.

            I offered that as a counterpoint to the assertion that the opinion of cis women is morally equivalent to the opinion of racists.

            Again, I don’t really know how or if women chess players (cis or trans) were solicited for their opinions on these rule changes.

    • NuPNuA@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      You’re looking at my analogy the wrong way. I’m saying that if a racist said they didn’t want to play with black people as they don’t see them as equal, we wouldn’t give them the time of day, so why do we give bigoted women the time of day because they refuse to accept transwomens gender?

      • RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        if a racist said they didn’t want to play with black people

        If the larger community proposed a restricted class for black people, we would still listen to black people about whether they thought it was a good idea, not the racists.

        The previous commenters’ statement that we need to listen to the women in the women’s restricted participation class, with respect to rule changes for the women’s restricted class, is valid. I think you’ve jumped to a conclusion that women chess players would oppose including trans chess players, without a basis in fact. It’s not clear to me that proposed restrictions on trans participation are actually coming from women participants.

        But if women players are concerned about the effect of including trans players (whatever effect that may be), clearly we should listen to them. The limited participation women’s class exists to serve the needs of the women in that class.

        • Vashti@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          It’s more like a tiny minority of cis women think all trans people should be shot at dawn and they get all the press, and are the only ones permitted to be acknowledged as “true women” with rights and shit—ironically.

          source, am woman who really doesn’t care where people piss and shit and thinks we can’t get evidence on whether trans people have advantages in sport or not unless we let them, y’know, do sport

          • RickRussell_CA@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            I think similarly. If, as a previous commenter implied, the main concern is discomfort related to social mixing between men and women participants, then the vast majority of female chess players are probably fine with including transwomen. But it’s their restricted class and they should be full stakeholders in any decisions.

            I think every sport has its own challenges regarding trans/intersex participation in restricted women’s classes, and it’s certainly not my role to tell women participating in those classes that they should accept participants with male genetics. I’m 100% behind social acceptance of trans identity, but athletic contests add a dimension that I am in no way qualified to comment on.