• sweng@programming.dev
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      8 months ago

      I’m saying that what your sources claim has never been stated by Russia, and none of these sources actually link to anything ever stated by Russia.

      Yes, that is a claim you make. It is up to you to support that claim that you are making. That is how discussions generally work.

      1. I make a claim
      2. I provide sources for said claim
      3. You refute the sources
      4. You provide an argument for why the sources should not be believed.

      Step 4 is what is missing, unless you count “because I say so” as a valid argument.

      It would be easy to take a source, look at e.g. a quote in the source, it’s attribution and source, and then check if such a person in fact did make such a claim. If e.g. an article claim person X working for ministry Y made a pressrelease on date Z, but that person is know to work somewhere else, and no press release was made at all that day, then it’s easy to disprove the source. That is how you discuss. Not just “sure, you provided a source, but not the source I wanted, so therefore I will ignore it”. That kind of argumentation is not the least bit productive

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          8 months ago

          Great analogy! See, I could easily argue that your friend does not know who I am, and thus can’t possibly know if I fuck goats or not. I could also e.g. ask for details, e.g. can your friend tell when I fucked a goat? If yes, great, because maybe I can show that I was, in fact, not fucking goats at the time.

          Note how I don’t dismiss your friend as a source simply because they are your friend, as that would be an ad-hominen logical fallacy.

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              8 months ago

              I’m not sure I follow? Are you saying your friend says I fuck goats, but in fact they do not? Would it not be quite simple to ask them, and dismiss them as a source since they themselves say they aren’t one?

              Regardless, when given a source, one looks at the content, not who or what the source is (ad hominem). If there is no argument for rejecting the source based on the content, it should be accepted.

              You still have not given a reasoning for rejecting the sources, and instead went on a tangent about my sexual exploits.

              I still think you made a good analogy, and as I stated, one should look at what your friend had to say about the goats: if they deny having said anything related to my goats the situation is clear. If they claim it is true, I can check the veracity of their claim. What I don’t do is reject them without first hearing them or expect anyone else to just blindly reject them.